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thanks, I can't leave until everyone owns a vintage Timex or those elusive rivets are found!

I'm behind you all the way, Mo. I've learnt so much from you through the years. Your experience and insight on all things Timex are priceless! The only movements that I thought were unrepairable were those cheap plastic quartz movements with plastic rivets that were ultrasonically welded. But I've been proven wrong when I saw a video from a 3rd world country, where the rivets were cut off, movement disassembled and cleaned and reassembled, then sealed with a few drops of glue. Just because our affluence affords us to dispose of a $10 movement, it does not allow us to ridicule and insult others who would undertake the repair.

The title of this post is the title of the below video (EDIT: Luckily, the video has been taken down!): I get concerned when someone promotes polishing wheel pivots with Eveflex and thinks that it could possibly replace a Jacot tool. The problem with Eveflex is that it polishes the pivot completely wrong. With Eveflex, the pivot is polished from the top side and makes it conical. With a Jacot tool, the pivot is polished along its long side, the only disadvantage is that the diameter can decrease, which, if necessary, can be corrected by installing a jewel with a slightly smaller jewel hole. In addition, I strongly doubt that Eveflex, like a Jacot tool, works per the "metal displacement" principle. Having said that, I use Eveflex myself, but I always use the very softest version, always polish the pivot by hand and only for a short time. I see it more as a deep clean than a polish, but clearly, it makes the pivot cone-shaped, but so little that it is not measurable or visible and therefore negligible. The video uses an electric rotary tool, only the second softest version of Eveflex, and the polishing goes on for what feels like an eternity. It will make the wheel pivot cone-shaped. I note that the video does not show the results of polishing the pivots of a third wheel, a fourth wheel, or an escape wheel. It makes you wonder why To each his or her own, but I strongly advise against using the tool in the video. Your opinions?

https://www.ebay.com.sg/itm/224377149905?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=3423-175132-2357-0&ssspo=MPr5TDAPRyu&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=v36TsHWBSw-&var=523164307352&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY You might want to keep this eBay link handy. I suggest that you practice on a scrap balance wheel first. Hairspring manipulation is advanced stuff and requires calm nerves and steady hands. An oiler might not be the best tool for the job. I use a sharp dental probe (because I'm a retired dentist). My mentor uses a bent sewing needle, jammed into the end of a pegwood. I find that using a curved tweezer in the left hand and a probe in the right hand works best for me. Place the hairspring on a flat piece of glass, with a white piece of paper under the glass for contrast. When you pinch the hairspring with the tweezers, allow the tweezer tips to go all the way until it rests on the glass before closing the tips of the tweezers. This stabilizes your hands and give better control. Likewise, the probe should also rest on the glass for stability. The secret to curving the hairspring is pinching the hairspring at the correct spot and gently stroking the part you want to bend with the probe. Experience will tell you how much to flex the spring to form it to the shape you want. If you do it enought times, reforming a hairspring is normal as oiling a shock jewel. And as John says... practice, practice, practice. Good luck.

Are you sure your impatience isn't getting the better of you murks. Good hairspring manipulation and the fine motor skills required takes months of practice and years to reach a near perfect skill for someone already gifted. Practice a little maybe 5 or 10 minutes each day with some scrap hairsprings. The last one i had to repair for a watch took me around 4 hours just to make it a round shape again thats without correcting any of the coil spacings or attempting some remaining vertical bends. You may need more space under your scope. You haven't said how bad the hairspring is or what tweezers you are using, you might be more suited working with particular sets of tweezers. You must have a comfortable working position and be in a relaxed mood, your blood sugar must be stable, how much are your hands and fingers shaking . You need as much stability from your bench as possible, shoulders down arms, wrists and the sides of the hands resting on the bench, can you achieve that working on top of your scope's base ?

It is a little "toasty". I presume nothing much comes out of the movement side. Wearing it occasionally wouldn't be much of a worry, but I wouldn't leave it in my pocket for very long.

Is it a knot ? Or is it not a knot ? Ive had coils jump inside each other, you can work it up to one end, the cock stud end with a fine needle. Fried was a bloody master of hairspring untanglement. If i can find the video, i once counted the number of times he said tangled and untangle, it was a lot, yes I'm a very sad and strange individual . Hairspring 101 i think it was, let me find it and come back. No it wasn't 101 I'm talking out my arse, but this is Henry the hairspring wizard performing his mystical art . https://youtu.be/egCwtMMoOCU?si=4LDRlpfqWVXKUHET

I tried different types of search in google images and found it. This is the type.

It might not need to be detached from the balance, plus on some modern replacement balance complete the coil is laser welded to the staff so should not be detached.

You've just spolt one of my hobbies.

If we assume that you stared directly at the watch, your whole face might receive around 100cpm., or around 1/5th of the dose the meter is showing. It would probably be less. This means that you would need to stare solidly at it 24hrs a day 7 days per week for around 430 days to increase your cancer risk by 1 in 1,000 - So not a zero risk, but equally not a significant risk, and you do need to stare solidly at the dial for that whole period.In reality, you probably would wear it for once in a blue moon, for a few hours, with the dial facing away from you. Increased cancer risk, probably immeasurably small. Just don't lick the dial or sniff the hands and you will be fine.

We discussed this a little while ago Watchie, the general opinion is that its a pretty crap idea risking pivot destruction, quite surprised at Matt promoting it. Apart from the fact that only the center part of the pins can used in this way. Nah mate the Jacot rules this one, this tool Galaxy pon polisher ? Gets "nul points" from Richard the terrible

I purchased £3.75 UV torch from ebay. Jewel 'ping'. Pick up UV torch, insert battery. Found red illuminated jewel within 15 seconds. Remove battery. Done this twice now. Would never have found them without. Well worth the purchase.

I spent the grand total of $4 on some cheap tools via Jaycar here in Australia. The little set consisted of a Jaxx type case opener, a pair of tweezers which surprisingly work a lot better than you would expect, a blue rubber blower and I'm positive there was something else, but I just can't remember what it was. Anyway, I bought it all for the blower which works fine. Can't go wrong for $4. Anyway as a project for myself, I drew up a holder for the opener and all the bits and then printed it in PLA on my 3d printer. If you look carefully, you can see the blower in the background. And please forgive the mess. Work in progress.

If I correctly understand the terminology, by " knot" you mean Hairspring is not " kinked " or " bent " or " twisted" rather there is a " knot" . ie; only one circle of the coil has tangled, actually its done the 360 degrees then passed under itself. In which case detaching the stud from the spring is practically a must. Best to seperate the coil from the balance staff. Lay the coil on top of a white sheet of paper laid on flat star foam. Needle pin the collet through its hole onto the starfoam. Starting from the collet, run a needle through the circles of the coil, driving the knot to the pinning point until the coil is disentangled. Easier shown than explained. I have had 100% success with this approach. Rgds

I have tried several ways and the only way that seems to work is to remove the spring from the balance and staff so it looks something like this (you can leave on the stud): Then using an old oiler and starting from the inside from a position where the spring is good, place the oiler between the coils and then slowly work your way around the coils from the inside out until you work out the problem. This is MUCH easier said than done, and of course you have to replace the spring back on the staff and balance once you are done. I have tried several 'shortcuts' that always ended in disaster, so this is the only way that has any chance of success. Maybe there are some hairspring 'black-belts' out there who know a better way, but this is the only way that I have tried that works - albeit a huge pain in the ... to do.

I am pretty sure that my can of Troop-Balas One-Dip is straight TCE. In the US, the Biden administration has proposed a blanket ban on the substance, citing carcinogenicity concerns: https://www.epa.gov/newsreleases/biden-harris-administration-proposes-ban-trichloroethylene-protect-public-toxic The industry people opposed to the ban are mostly making the case that they use just trace amounts of it here and there, not so much that they want to have 200ml of it in a jar in a desk drawer for when something delicate needs to be very clean. It used to be used heavily in dry cleaning of fabrics. Are there other comparable substances that watchmaking suppliers are likely to be able to switch to?

Hello all I want some mid quality Watch straps. They seem to come in either cheap or expensive, £8 - 12 or £150 plus. There must be a compromise.

I like the fact that you are pushing downwards instead of sidewards to start the pin. It kinda frees up your left hand to help stabilise your right hand, and helps to guide the pin in. Visibility seems better as well, just my preference.

WTF? Did you hear this from Buck Fiden?

An advantage of your aproach is that adjustor arm can no farther move as pin is inserted, disadvantage of it is you might touch/bend the spring while trying to insert the pin in the hole. Rgds

I discovered standing my movement holder on its edge so i could insert the pin from the top works really well for me.

To repin, put a bit of grease on flat side of the free end of your screwdriver, with tweezers pick up and stick the pin into grease , grease will hold the pin prependicular to the drivers falt side. Instal balance and cock on mainplate. Thread the spring through stud hole. Aim the pin for stud hole, once you get the sharp end of the pin in the hole, a pair of tweezers will drive the pin home. Rinse and ur DONE. Hector and few others tried this approach with success and liked it. To unpin use long nose pliers . grab the pin , pull out. https://www.amazon.in/Durable-Organizer-Jewelry-Handicraft-Hand-Made/dp/B0CBPMDKWY

Oh my word Joe what you thinking 'unpin the hairspring are you mad ? Quite possibly but maybe right as well. There comes a day in watch repair when you need to be brave and bold and say to yourself I'm going to unpin that sucker straighten it out and re-pin it. And that day Louis has come for you my friend, good luck bold one we shall see you on the other side.

More low cost USSR goodness. Possibly a Bostok 2409A but no movement pictures, so that is just a guess. It does appear to tick, as there were several pictures of the dial side in the listing and the second hand had moved between pictures. Yes, you read that correctly. Two pounds and fifty four pence shipped. I think that is possibly a record for the 404 club. It should clean up very nicely, and I'll post a few pictures once I have it ready to wear. .. and next we have a small collection of junk for a fiver. It appears to include a rather battered Swatch Irony chronograph.

I appreciate the math! I have about 10 of these now. I keep then in the back room so not sure the cumulative effecf.

"High level. Closely watch the reading, find out why." Why is a radium dialed watch. It isn't going to change its output (at least not in a positive direction). If you were Homer Simpsoning (working as a safety officer in a nuclear power plant for those not hip to American pop culture from the last... holy crap... 34 years!), you should be frantically trying to figure out why the readings spiked. If it's an old wrist watch, I wouldn't be all that concerned. Eat fewer bananas on the days you wear it.

I never buy without seeing a pic of the movement - ask for one. There could be anything it there, and you've no idea of the condition.

Yah you can do it, a calm and collected dude like you. Get some grub and be comfortable and happy with your seating position. You may not have to detach the hairspring from the cock. If you watched Fried's video you might be able to unwind it. It didn't get tangled and then fixed to the cock like that.

This is a vice to hold watches before you open them. I had one of these plus the opener. I have looked for a photo of the opener but can't find one.

This is unfortunate classic problem of watch repair and YouTube. Typically on YouTube whoever's making a video will always make it look easy. The reality of watch repair is like anything else that requires practice lots of practice. Preferably practicing on things that are disposable not practicing on live watches were problems have occurred. Microscopes are such interesting devices for instance a lot of them look identical. But visually looking the same doesn't mean that they are the same.

I haven't got this coming, but I thought I would ask if anyone can tell me anything about them? They are asking $85AUD for it. I quite like it, but it is not running. I have ZERO idea whether I could get parts for it if need be. I quite like the way it looks. I am a bit concerned about the back of the lug in one photo from the website. https://www.etsy.com/au/listing/1571877241/buler-vintage-mechanical-watch-not?ga_order=most_relevant&ga_search_type=all&ga_view_type=gallery&ga_search_query=antique+clocks+not+working&ref=sr_gallery-3-24&pro=1&frs=1&organic_search_click=1 I don't know how you guys find watches for the 4.04 club? is that 4.04GBP?

Yes it's a frustrating and expensive game of tiddlywinks without the torch

Mark Lovick has a couple of very good instructional videos on YouTube. Look for how to repair a bent / twisted hairspring. Of course, he makes it look easy because of his years of practice, but the techniques work if you understand and apply them, slowly and carefully. After every adjustment, check to see if you made things better or worse. What is the working distance under your micrscope? It looks too low to get your tweezers between the objective lens and the work surface. You have a ring light fitted, which is good, but no Barlow lens, is that right? You have two different eyepiece lenses fitted. Can you describe what you have there?

This setup makes your cheap case opener look like real legit business.

Qualified with $10 of course. Recently, I had a solid gold ladies watch with a bad ETA movement. Battery leaked. It was a fairly rare movement thus the ones I found were expensive: $75. The movement arrived and was not working. Soooo, I decided to see if I could get the old movement working. Not in my right mind (left mind for this task!), I did service the movement. It was not as hard as I thought it would be. Anyway, it worked. However, I was also able to get the NOS movement working as well.

Are we discussing movement prices cheap disposable movements? For instance Ronda movements A well-recognized Swiss brand let's look at prices. So let's look at the link quality watches at quality prices versus Timex garbage at cheap prices oh wait I'm confused look at all the movements for less than $25 in fact see quite a few movements at nine dollars? https://www.stsupply.com/watch-parts/movements/ronda-movements.html Here's one So we have a Swiss product quality Swiss product and how do we know it's a quality product because at the link below you can download the technical information including the complete a colorful service guide. Although who in their right mind would service a quartz watch that could be replaced for less than $10? https://www.ronda.ch/en/productfinder/caliber/505 Now we have another problem Timex is easier to make fun of because they make their movements for the most part. Occasionally in the past when they didn't have specific movements they will purchase from other companies or they just will purchase the entire other company to get their movements. It makes it a lot easier to point at the target because one target. What happens to these quality Rhonda movements what watches expensive Swiss watches have these movements in them? I suppose you could argue that the expensive Swiss watch isn't as profitable as the Timex watch because maybe the Swiss spend more money making the cases the bands and other components to justify selling a watch for several hundred dollars with a nine dollar movement inside. Oh and I think somewhere somebody was commenting about the price of Rolex suggesting that their greedy versus Timex. Except Rolex is a nonprofit company they're not in it to make money at least isn't that what a nonprofit company is for? Then just a reminder for everybody this is a watch repair discussion group. So personally for somebody starting out I always recommend a clone of a 6497 because it's relatively cheap. It's also a brand-new its typically running. I think it's good for people to see what a running watch looks like if they would pay attention. In other words what does a running watch really look like what does the balance wheel look like when it's oscillating what is a flat hairspring look like. Plus the all-important test if you disassemble a running watch and put it back together is it still running? Who can you blame if it's not running after you disassemble and put it back together. Versus working on broken watches were they have no experience and the outcome of successful repair is unknown. Or working on any non-jeweled watch pin levers in particular which can be repaired the same as the Timex but they represent challenges that I think newbies should avoid. The same as newbies should avoid trying to repair a watch until they grasp what the watch actually is. Plus unless they like expensive lessons should avoid quality name brand Swiss in particular like Omega or Rolex to start with. Not that either those companies rip us off on the cost of spare parts that they won't sell us anyway.

We can't point the finger at just one company, I'm sure most watch brands in their day have cut corners to compete, you choose a customer market that you want, so you aim to get that market, business is business. A brief glimpse of Swatch's antics over the years shows real planned greed rearing its ugly head. There's probably not many that have decent ethics if anybody can name one, and many more that hide behind them. From the videos I've watched they brought affordability and reliability to an important aspect of everyday life. It would certainly be a shame to lose a valuable member that has vast experience and knowledge in such a unique design. JerseyMo's passion of Timex obviously shows, for that reason alone we cant let you leave.

Hi like Jersey Mo I take the timex as another step on the evouloution of the watch industry, people like them and wear them and buy them, why. What is the basic function of a watch. To tell the time. And if the timex watches do that then that’s a success. The fact that they are still being made, worn and sold all over the world . So what’s with the snobbery regarding which is the best brand. You buy a watch it’s a personal choice. I have about 30 watches and as many clocks but I wear a Lorus Quartz, it tells me the time ,day date and it glows in the dark and it’s dependable. Timex are very much in the same vein practical. Would your Rolex, or any other Swiss watch still tick after an afternoon working with a Jack hammer breaking concrete ,probably not but a Timex would. In conclusion I respect JersyMo’s attachment and expertise he has built up through great patience and his knowledge of the brand. So let’s kick the SNOBBERY into touch we all have our own opinions some best kept to our selves. I would agree with the comments regarding they are not the best starter movement to work on as the construction differs from the many watches you will come across in the course of watch repair. But there are many cheap working watches to be had to practise on preferably pocket watches as the bits are larger and easier to handle. My 10 pence worth.

I think that should be permanently pasted alongside the forum header As beginners, I think we all fell in to the trap of thinking poor amplitude is mainly a result of the mainspring. Because we thing we've cleaned everything really well, and the gear train seems OK. When I started I changed the mainspring every time I serviced a watch. But, on reading advice from @nickelsilver, I changed my view, and now only buy a new spring if the old one is broken, or completely set. It's usually dirty/bent pivots/wheels, broken jewels etc. etc. (And often too much play at the top of the barrel arbor, allowing the barrel to rub). It's only after years of practice that you learn to spot all the little things that you miss as a beginner.

yes, how can I continue now that the truth has come out that Timex is the evil empire of the watch industry! Oh wait just a minute. So when Rolex creates a product that sells for 35K ( those are the cheap ones too) and only can be afforded by a small percentage of the world population "that's not greed" ? I thought companies were in business to generate funds, create jobs, support economies and all that good stuff the politicians argue about? What am I missing here? I ain't missing nothing. In fact have a look at these NOS beauties I picked up a few weeks back. All from 1967.

Well, Here I am. Staking set complete. So, Let me tell you a story. Follow the Photographs. Sorry about the size. I bought a staking set for £13. Size 4mm diameter Used on an anvil and hand held to hammer. 14 month of saving and I Purchased a professional Anchor Staking set. £112. Stakes 5mm. 2 stumps for 3mm hole in anvil. Make a note - No convex holed stakes for working with hands. Base hole 4mm, too small for Anchor stakes. OK for cheap set. Made a base holder out of wood and plastic for protrudes through anvil. £1.39. Filed original cheap tips to 3 mm to depth of 8mm to allow insertion through anvil. Takes 1 hour to file each stake Anchor Stakes - no convex. Cheap set has convex. Top hole 5mm. Found a 4mm pipe, but 4.4mm external diameter. Insert 4mm stake. Make pipe larger with tape and make a stop. Best of all worlds. I have a semi professional system for the fraction of the price. Just love this hobby.

We should set a WRT account on thingiverse where we can all upload our stuff. Here are all of mine https://www.thingiverse.com/scottliamuae/designs

PLA. Not brittle. Holding up fine

Yes it is. Try contacting Jarett at https://www.unwindintime.com. I've gotten some very nice Hamilton Electrics from him

I'm a fan of the Hamilton (and others) electronic watches as well. I picked this one up a couple of years ago but lost the crown and haven't had any luck finding a new one. The Odyssee is an automatic though, right?

Nice way to take a picture but I would try not to hang a balance wheel like that because in the case of an Omega watch the hairsprings are usually soft and they don't like to be stretched. Hairsprings don't do that themselves typically in the watch so somebody must've been playing with the watch before you? The problems is we would almost need to see the thing in front of us to get a proper view and It requires somebody with hairspring manipulation skills. So there is the possibility that the skilled person may be able to fix this perhaps.

Kalle on Chronoglide showed a way for removing such wheels. He said he was shown it by his original tutor who never used any tool. Using two pieces of peg wood, ease the tips under the wheel centre and rotate the wheel with small movements, applying gentle pressure toward the centre. He said it always works. I tried this on three pressure fit wheels that were tight. I cannot afford the Presto tool. Each took over 4 minutes, but it did work, and no distortion to the wheels. What he said is that he uses the Presto tool for time saving. He presto, it's off.