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Hi All, I'm Geoff and I've been working on/with watches and clocks since I was thirteen. My dad was a watchmaker and while he did not want me in the field as a profession, I've always maintained a pretty good working knowledge. In the '70's I kinda got pulled back into things because Quartz revolution began and he only had limited electronic knowledge. So we combined skills. He the watchmaker and me the electronics tech. Being here in NY helped because we got to know the folks from Bulova, Seiko, Citizen, and WOSIC. H.B. Freid was my Dad's teacher and I was fortunate enough to get to know him too. I still maintain a bench here at home and occasionally work on watches for friends although the hands aren't what they used to be. Not going to be working on any FHF59 or AS1012's any time soon. Oddly enough though my years working with the field taught me how to work on almost anything else mechanical and mostly electronic. Since I was the one in the family who maintained Dad's cleaning and timing machines. those experiences carried over quite nicely into the worlds of recording and audio as well as others. I look forward to the discussions and maybe still learning a trick or two. Cheers to all and nice to be here.

The UK lots can be a 404 hit or miss, 6 - 10 watches can come in anywhere from 20 - 50 quid. I once had a 404 division of 8 watches for a fraction over 30 quid, one of them was a Smiths Astral model National 17 an absolute certainty for winner contender. The crystal was scrached up to the point of being very difficult to see the brand, something triggered a gut feeling in me and it paid off.

The best and almost only way to achieve the magical £ 4.04 individual watch cost is via the loophole ploy of job lot buys Ross. Dividing down the outlay by the number of watches purchased. I've managed it many times in the past, this then gives you the extra edge of choosing any watch from that lot. Maybe we should have an all time winner, whos prepared to troll through the last four years of posts and pick some worthy contenders. Unfortunately i have a poorly shoulder so i cant raise my right hand and my left shoulder is out in sympathy for my right shoulder. Put your right hand up if you think i talk a load of bull 🖐 Tom's comment is purely restricted to the Bergeon culture of " lets rip off everyone on the planet " Voted , i thought to keep it in pounds as originally designed and out of respect for Andy . Personally i would have kept the £4.04 as I'm very traditionalist and dont like change but i know how hard you overseas guys are finding it and i believe in fair play. I expect to be posting the occasional Omega or Longines but then you brought this on yourself so dont get jealous Scott

I have the perfect solution for this, i just dont invite anyone round.

The more I get into this hobby. The more I am amazed at the standard of those preceding. Amazing people and amazing skills. We wear their history on our wrists.

Hello WRT members I started a project 4years ago printing straps for seiko model 5M42-0E69. This because the strap wasn’t produced anymore and i needed a strap for my father’s watch that come to my possession. I found someone who was willing to make a computer drawing and than he started printing and worked out well. To build up the metal caps you need to have some patience but it worked. He fiets printed a prototype in red. With some adjustments such as the heath off the printer he started to print them in the original color black. Sorry these are original SLQ003 straps!!! This is a black printed strap By the way the slq003 strap and the 5M42-0E60/69 strap are the same only the metal caps from the slq are a bit more robustly. Than I came to the idea to experiment with colors.

Do you use them? I have several pairs but never used them for watch repair work. The problem is the spring tension is already too high and may cause a "ping" when you release to grip the object. A conventional tweezer gives better tactile feedback. I use the fine grindstone on my bench grinder, then polish with a nylon fibre wheel to get a satin finish. I grind off about an 1 inch zone to distribute the stress to prevent metal fatigue from the repeated flexing. Take a close look at our College tweezers. Most of them have a thinner section just after the joint to give them flex.

Much like @mikepilk, I took a chance on a movement-unseen Citizen Square Custom. If I did my serial decoding right, it should be vintage 1969. Some discoloration of the dial, but otherwise looks to be in nice shape with the original bracelet. There's a video that shows it running and the price was right, so fingers crossed.

Case in point, I just scored a lot of 4 Timex mechanical watches for $15.50 which puts the individual watches at $3.88 each, or £3.09 (or €3.59, ¥28.08 (CH), ¥607 (JP), ₹324 ... or 0.00006 Bitcoin )

£10.00 is not a huge amount for a watch these days with the increased asking prices. Let’s count ourselves lucky we don’t have this for tools, it would be £404.00 Tom

The printing material is TPU my next step is to print them in a more rubber like TPU material and instead off using the computer drawing me gonna try a 3D scan from a original strap and see how that works out. This rubber like TPU is called 1301 but this is industrial material and a bit more expensive. Also thinking about printing straps for the 3m22-0d39 because these are also not produced anymore. If you have a watch in your collection and can’t buy or find a strap anymore find someone who has knowledge about 3D printing give it a try like I did.

Learned a new thing today! Looked this up and found this informative document: Watkins-MainspringGauges.pdf

Personally I would salvage the missing screws from some donor movement. I also bought a random selection of screws "Assortment of Stainless Steel Watch Screws" for next to nothing. As for using an Alum solution - I had great success with that removing a rusted stem from a stainless steel crown. The best piece of advice I read on doing that was to keep the solution warm so that the reaction didn't take weeks! I did it in a couple of hours with the solution in jam jar and the jam jar in a saucepan full of water which I left on an induction hob maintaining about 60C in the Alum solution.

So initially i used a big bench grinder to take the bulk of material away. This had to be done very carefully and kept moving and continually water cooled. Its all too easy to remove too much or overheat the steel ruining a good pair of tweezers. I tested frequently until i was happy with the tension, then with a small 1/2 " drum sander with a 180 grit roll and finishing by hand with reducing grades of wet and dry up to i think it was 1500. As an aside not only is tension reduced but also tip spacing, so that needs to be readjusted. Nev has some information on a pair that he made from scratch, the link to his post is a bit further back on this thread.

Just pull the tweezers open.

Hello Geoff and welcome. Thanks for the background information. That's an impressive and interesting personal history. I look forward to you contribution.

I'll have a look for it, but don't hold your breathe. Failing that I'll make another video when another bezel needs to be removed.

Lots to choose from... Just sayin'.

The 73 was my setting lever make Mike, same piece fitted to your 72. I enjoyed working on the movement, fair quality. 73 wasn't front loading,but a tight spacer ring that i had to fit onto the movement before casing up. I had to adjust endshake on the third wheel so apart from the make everthing else was good.

Well it's arrived, and it's a pleasant surprise. A 11.5''' 21 jewel FHF 72. It's running (just) and looks in great condition. It needs a good service, and new crown and strap. It's a front loader but doesn't have a split stem. There's a small lever (visible when you remover the bezel), which when moved, frees the stem and the movement from the case (a new one on me).

Ah but, will you count DIY versions.

@rossjackson01 it's only getting harder and harder to get 'cheap' watches to work on, I have done some reading and depending on the source the prices of vintage watches is increasing somewhere between 10% and 50% a year. The only way I have found to get watches to lay the 404 game with is to buy a bulk lot say 10 with an average price of < £4.04 but even that is getting harder and harder, hence the re-boot. I see that £6.99 is looking like a popular choice - but I ask the members, is £6.99 realistic, can you actually find watches to work on for £6.99 - maybe its better to cut to the chase and jump to £10.10 for example and allow more people to play? Jut a thought.

Here's a little more to add from an old book that contains articles from Emil Borer once head of Rolex's technical department and designer of their movements at Rolex's factory ( which apparently they had but not really until the early 2000s ) so i guess the mislead publisher meant Aegler's factory

That sounds like the running distance of a horse I bet on 2 years ago, I'm still waiting for the phone call to let me know its crossed the finish line. Elegantly put Ross and yes we do .

I am new to the new to the watch restoration hobby I have the basic tools. I'm here to learn new things. And utilize my resources (you guys) to expand my knowledge and hopefully save some derelict timepieces from the trash.

I went with GBP as you guys started it off and $4.04 adjusted for inflation.

Yes they all used to chop marks but this guy was so over the top and passionate about it that it still stands out in my memory so vividly.

I used to have a lecturer during my Engineering classes who was always beating a drum about quoting units, I remember one day he was so exasperated with our class he said "quote your units!!!!...I don't care what units JUST QUOTE THEM!!!" My next assignment I calculated the velocity and quoted the units, something along the lines of: "Thus the velocity of the body will be 0.00345 furlongs per fortnight" He graded my work as an F, then crossed it out and gave me an A+, turns out he had a sense of humor after all.

Just to add to what @Neverenoughwatches says, the impulse jewel on the balance wheel is also held in by shellac, so avoid exposing the assembly to IPA as well - as stated the one-dip and generic tetrachloroethylene equivalent is safe with shellac so you can use this for your pallet fork and balance assembly. I agree, but worth noting that IPA readily soaks up water, even from the atmosphere: "IPA exposed to the air will absorb moisture rapidly until it reaches an equilibrium value of 65% IPA to 35% water." So you need to refresh it regularly. Just to add to my previous post here is some more interesting information on IPA that I found: Source "For a start, IPA is neither a very effective nor very versatile cleaner. IPA’s cleaning ability is limited to human body oil and iconic salts but not much more. IPA is not effective on mineral oils and most hand lotions. IPA does not clean oils and greases very well. Because fiber optics have now expanded into mining, oil fields, as well as telecom networks and data centers, selecting “the right stuff” becomes an essential best practice. Drying speed is another issue with IPA. Slow-drying IPA can be trapped inside a fiber-optic connector. This once-pure liquid may leach out inconveniently and contaminate an endface. A familiar characteristic of any liquid is its boiling point; the lower the boiling point, the faster a liquid will evaporate. Water boils at 100 degrees Celsius and dries slowly; alcohol boils at 78 degrees Celsius so it dries slowly as well. Many companies have introduced new cleaning choices that boil near room temperature. These cleaners will “flash dry” and will not leave contamination or moisture trapped on the fiber. IPA has another unexpected characteristic; it is hygroscopic, which means it attracts moisture to itself. Studies of 99.9-percent IPA reveal that a bottle of IPA in an open container will lose 7 percent of its strength in as little as 15 minutes. IPA continues to absorb moisture until it reaches equilibrium at about 65 percent. This is why the “rubbing alcohol” purchased at a local store is about 30-percent water. The manner in which the cleaner is packaged is critical to its performance."

Correct one dip is expensive when the chemical is purchased as " one dip " which is why it is mostly reserved for these two small parts as far as information tells us it is mostly tetrachloroethylene. I use it bought as perchloroethyl used in dry cleaning processes, i cant say I'm overimpressed with it though it appears to me to be shellac safe. What may be a better solution for hairsprings is a high lab grade of pure benzine. IPA is mostly used as a rinse and water displacer and yes it does have the potential to dissolve shellac, personally i would not buy anything that has significant water dilution so 99.9% IPA is the way to go. And lastly the part you are cleaning dictates your choice of cleaning brush, delicate parts like a hairspring requires the finest artist's brush you can find. Plates and bridges can take a little more scrubbing, but always check to make sure the surface is being unharmed. And dont forget a stick of tip benzine soaked correctly shaped pegwood is your mate set up for cleaning dirty jewels and removing stubborn dried up lubrication.

Den / Dennison is a unit measurement of size this is actually a mainspring gauge . I haven't heard of a pivot been measured in Dennison before. Though the small thickness gauge is usually supplied with a Jacot tool and is more accurately known as a pivot destroyer.

Hello and welcome to the forum. Enjoy

Welcome! To which part of India will my greetings go? Frank

As long as you don't grind the stuff up and blow it around, you should be fine. Use a dust mask if in doubt. The things I'm very careful of are: Radium lume - even the stuff that is visually completely dead and inert is still highly radioactive; it's the fluorescent part that decays, not the radium. A single speck inhaled or ingested can cause cancer, so store parts in zip bags and wear a dust mask & wipe your work area down after handling anything that uses it. A proper geiger counter is a good investment if you plan on working with vintage watches, so you can check for it & take appropriate precautions. "One dip" & equivalents - the original type & the generic PERC dry cleaning fluid (Tetrachloroethylene / perchloroethylene) which is what the original one dip was mostly made of. That's toxic, a known carcinogen. Use in very good ventilation only & keep it sealed whenever possible. The newer B-Dip is presumably a safer replacement.

I went with 8.90£ because 12th century Italian mathematicians are always excellent topics to bring up when trying to get your guests to go home.

Are you open to other things that would make your timepiece go faster. Does it have a bimetallic balance wheel for instance? Often times they get squeezed they're no longer round the arms get bent in that would speed you up. Also when you're looking at your balance we'll make sure you have even pairs of timing screws. It's amazing how fast you'll go if you're missing one of the timing screws so there have to be opposite pairs in other words if there's a screw on one side there should be a screw on the other side. If the hairspring is magnetized has oil on it or anything that causes it to be stuck together. Or for that matter it's touching anything. Also how was the balance wheel removed from the bridge oftentimes they're unpinned as do not do not have a stud and if that happens somebody will shorten their spring.