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someday when the plague goes away and life somewhat returns to normal maybe you could find somebody locally that has radium hands you can check out your detector. the Geiger counter I have was purchased as a partial kit from a company called maplin the reason for the partial kit I already had the Geiger counter tube. it has a small end window type tube zero idea how well it's calibrated. Has three separate ranges labeled 0.5, 5 an 50 mR/hr. turning it on in the room and the lowest sensitivity every now and then it makes a little chirping sound far enough apart that you wonder if it's broken and then reminded by a little chirping sound. I thought I had banished everything to a faraway location in the house but for some unknown reason there is a bag of brand-new hands of mixed type some of them are blue steel gold color and some have that familiar green colored stuff in the hands. not really desiring to search through the bag for which ones specifically radioactive so as I approach the bag at about 8 inches away the background occasional pop slowly increases at 3 inches you definitely seem to have something that might be radioactive. Holding it up to the bag moving around looking for whatever's most radioactive it looks like I'm getting something in the range of 0.3 to about 0.4. then what else would I have that has radium nearby? Oh my favorite little baby Ben alarm clocks chrome case black dials patent dates of 1920 in 1925. For this I need to change the scale now it's on the five MR scale. Looks like one of the minor problems of small in window tubes it's hard to get it exactly where it needs to be. But I'm easily getting 1.5 and in the right place it will go a little over 2 MR another way if you're not sure if your clocks or radioactive you could try an experiment leave the country go to Canada attempt to come back see what happens. The local chapters around here and the Canadian chapter to the north have a summer picnic and two separate people I don't think was on the same weekend I think it was a couple years apart attempted to return to the US with it ships clock one of those ones with those nice big hands covered with? They both had the weight while they search the car. So the border crossings are much more sensitive to radioactive things I was told that even the fire trucks now all have radiation detectors on them and not sure if I want to know why that is.

Below is a video of a Peltier cloud chamber. It gives you the ability to see charged particles emanating from a radioactive source. They demonstrate several objects including the source from a smoke detector and a radium lumed watch hand. It even picks up cosmic and environmental radiation. Fascinating, and pretty eerie to watch.

I think that is a typo. Alpha particles are in essence Helium, or if you want to be more specific a Helium 4 nucleus. They are also easily absorbed by pretty much anything, so they provide limited scope for damage to tissue, unless of course as Nucejoe says unless you add the radium to your lunch, you are probably fairly safe. There is a full discussion of the issue here. As to uses for radiation detectors like yours, they are quite interesting devices to play with. Mainly they detect beta and gamma radiation, which means they will detect something from the radium hands, just not the majority of the radiation which is Alpha. Most commercial radiation detectors fall in to the category of beta and gamma or gamma only detectors, for a couple of reasons. First, alpha radiation is fairly easy to protect against, and most of it will be blocked by clothing or a thin barrier of paper, and therefore is far less of a problem than beta and gamma radiation. Secondly, and for the same reason, making a detector that is sensitive to alpha radiation is more problematic, since whatever you make it from, must allow alpha particles to enter the detector, while protecting the detector from the environment. I have a couple of devices that detect emissions from old watch dials, (radium and later tritium dials). They don't detect the alpha however, but you can estimate the alpha from the amount of gamma and beta they detect, so I suspect your device should work the same way.

No it isn't. An Alpha particle comprises 2 neutrons and 2 protons, making it a Helium nucleus. The atomic number for Neon is 10, so has 10 neutrons and 10 protons. No, Radium is primarily an alpha emitter, although does also emit beta and gamma. If your detector picks up alpha then it will detect Radium.

Well I got a Radex RD1212-BT Outdoor edition - obviously so I can take it off roading in a hurricane. Actually it was nominally more expensive than the base model but offered with next day Amazon Prime delivery. Fired it up and tested it on my suspect dial...nothing. Nothing at all. Well, it did indicate 0.10 background radiation. I suppose that's good but part of me was hoping it would indicate Radium just so I could see it work. But this poses a question for me - this particular device only detects Beta, Gamma, and X-Ray. NOT Alpha. I'm no nuclear scientist so here comes my dumb question: do I need a geiger counter that detects Alpha particles to determine if I have a Radium dial?

Hello fellow watchmakers, in the photos attached you will see a white and black dial which was re lumed using pre mixed patina lume in a syringe nothing was added. It has the perfect matte powdery looking finish like vintage radium lume but color is too orange almost like a yellow ochre, i added instant coffee to the mix before application on the dial in the case, has a better color like a burnt sienna but it has a gloss to it. Iam not a fan of using varnish so I need to figure out a way to get the finish of the orange lume with a color more like burnt umber....as an artist umbers have a bit of green and them, so adding anything to the original mix gives a yellowish brown color. Radium lume looks more like burnt umber.....I was thinking of using match green tea powder with the original mix hoping it won’t add a sheen to it. When I search online all I hear about is coffee (which is usually added after application) and baking. I can’t bake a porcelain dial and coffee isn’t giving me what I need. I did hear someone using cigar ash or graphite anyone have any suggestions.....burnt umber color with a matte finish.

Possibly mildly radioactive, but I'm not sure that the brown marks are actually burn in from radiation, although they could well be, I simply don't know what the mechanism would be. Radium is a possibilty, in which, with a half life of around 1600 years, they are likely to be pretty much as radioactive as the day they were painted (which in the grand scheme of things, is not particularly radioactive). The "phosphor" (actually zinc based emitter is a better description), is the bit that degrades, not the radiation source.

I've seen some old watches where you can actually see darkened areas over each number, where the crystal has browned/yellowed specifically due to the radiation. It's crazy how much some companies covered them. I tend to like the 30-50's watches and so bought a geiger counter for safety. It's positively nuts how much radiation some watches give off. Has anyone tried putting new lume on radium to see if it glow again?

This link goes a bit into the discoloration of glass by radiation and apparently is known as 'radiation browning' http://birns.com/uploads/file/Radiation-induced Discoloration.pdf The clock I saw it on had not worked for decades, had heavy radium paint on the hands and the hands had stayed in the same place over that time causing the discoloration of the glass inline with the hands.

I agree the yellow is age and its not glass it's plastic, its the blackening above the hands I'm talking about. I only mentioned glass as the only other time I've seen this was on the glass of a clock with radium hands. I also agree owning it wouldn't be dangerous, and if you are careful with cleaning it would be safe to work on this watch, but I'm going to pass on this watch as the evidence points to it having more radium paint on it than usual.

Have a look at this military pocket watch from WWII. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Elgin-Military-GSTP-WWII-Pocket-Watch-1943-9-Jewels-size-16s/164090389422?hash=item26348ca3ae:g:0CEAAOSw0AxeTsCc Have a look at the photo of the dial it looks like the radium on the hands has blackened the crystal. I have seen this before on clocks with a lot of radium on the hands giving a purple tint to the glass dial, but never seen this on a watch before and never that dark. Has anyone else ever seen this on a watch before?

wear nitrile gloves and a dust mask if it makes you feel better , and don't lick the dial. I do know that way back before radio activity was understood, factory workers who applied radium lume had many health problems brought about by sharpening the brush in their mouths. it also has a very long half life, even though the lume is spent it is still radio active.treat it with respect.

If you have been following this discussion on radioactive lume, you might find this interesting. Something to bear in mind, most "radioactive" watches are mildly hazardous, if the lume particulate is allowed to escape in to the environment which is why the majority of watches produced today do not contain any radioactive material. There are a few exceptions that have tritium tubes, but they are mainly intended for military or dive use. The doses in normal use from wearing an old radium, Promethium or tritium lumed watch are almost too small to measure, however the devices in this video are actually a genuine radiation risk, all be it a relatively low one. If, on the other hand, you are looking for something to calibrate your Geiger counter with, then you might like this ebay search -> https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_odkw=Negative+Ion+powder&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=Negative+Ion+&_sacat=0 Buy at your own risk of course. The one I found most concerning was this. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Pack-of-4-Energy-Armor-Negative-Ion-Sports-Hair-Bands-Providing-Natures-Ions/251469259674?epid=1388443313&hash=item3a8cbc639a:g:XK0AAOxyXzxTGcHK

Yes but its organic acids lactic and gluconic and its heavily diluted with water, using straight up vinegar will most likely instantly remove the lettering. You can dilute these acids but i dont trust my mix of water to acid ratios and I wouldn’t recommend it to the OP. For $6 a pint its already pre-mixed ready to go and hasn’t failed me yet. I have also used these products on radium lumed dials without any issues with the lume afterwards. I attached an example. I wish i had a before pic with dial out the yellow crystal hides all the lime that was on the surface. With all that being said, this is a varnished dial and since there is ink on it so there isn’t many alternatives here without having to reprint. But with the CLR and W&D 40 the OP can make it look much better than it looks now.

Hello I am Kevin from Germany I came through YouTube and I have been interested in watches recently This looks like a very friendly community, I did not know this stuff exists in the internet until I saw one myself I am thinking about repainting an antique wall clock with luminous paint. I do not know what kind of paint I should use since radium is not easy to get these days. Any advice? Best wishes Kevin

I don't think radium paint can be bought, that since a long time due to prudent prohibition. Chose the shade that better suit the piece from Luminova and other producers. BTW, we have a section where it's considered polite to introduce themselves, as well another for repair questions.

Hello I am looking to fix an old watch and need luminous paint can I get some advice to where I can get my hands on some radium paint? Many thanks Kevin from Germany

FHF 150 is a common movement . So that is no problem if you break anything. Or need parts . What i think is rare is the extra wheel and parts for the center sweep second. So be careful with that. Need to pull straight up to remove that wheel. Problem with the presto puller is that is large . And be careful when you open the lower incabloc . They are rare to. Other then that go for it and looking forward to see the serviced watch. Warning to !!! Radium hands and dial so be careful .

I thought it worth waking up this dead thread, just to let you all know, if you want to potentially add to the low level radioactive waste in your work area, there is an interesting lot on fleabay... https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Box-with-Luminous-Powder-Watch-Hands-Watchmakers-Watch-Tools/264582467029?_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40733%26meid%3Ddb39ea03d137414683bb1f1dc365c8f6%26pid%3D100290%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D153778189660%26itm%3D264582467029%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2060778&_trksid=p2060778.c100290.m3507 Time to crank up the old geiger counter and see what wonders lie in those innocuous looking glass tubes. Judging by the vintage of it, there is a reasonable chance that you might get some radium or tritium in them. Of course I might be wrong, and it may be jusy plain old boring strontium aluminate.

You can do that but be warned you might be dealing with radium. The problem is without a Geiger counter you can't be 100% sure whether it is or is not but from the 50s they were still using radium.

The colour of radium and tritium based luminous material is not from the radium itself (which is only present in very small amounts), but from the "phosphors" that are included with it. Confusingly these materials generally contain little or no phosphor https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphor#Radioactive_light_sources If you are planning on removing the old lume, you might like to take a look at this thread too. It goes in to some detail regarding these materials. Generally they are relatively safe so long as you treat them with respect and avoid getting them airborne or ingesting them. They do however remain radioactive, long after the "phosphor" looses its ability to produce light. On the subject of colour, if you look on line you will see quite a number of different shades for old lume, but generally they tended to be somewhere on the bluish green spectrum, with some variation in to yellow. Modern lume comes in a much broader group of colours and intensities, and there is a bit of an art in producing something that looks authentically old, without being too bright or clean looking

Old radium based luminescent paint will age to rust red color but I think it all started green. If moisture gets to it, it will turn an ash black. Generally, collectors look for a mocha color. Haven't seen much of that in radium watches though.

Wait a minute- you won the watch in the first picture only to have the listing updated stating the watch had been re-lumed and a new picture posted? Yeah, I wouldn't accept that- too shady. The luminous paint in the second image is too bright and doesn't look proper. It might be possible to remove it without damaging the dial but that's not guaranteed. The value of the piece has taken a hit too since the original luminous paint on the dial is gone- even if it's under the new paint, there's no way to remove just the new paint and recover the old paint. The old paint is probably radium based which is another reason to avoid messing with the dial. Lastly, the regulator pushed way off to the side is an ominous sign.

Here are the crystals I mentioned. Unfortunately I didn't take any close ups, and I have removed them now, so I can't analyze them any further. They were hard and glassy, but crumbled easily in to a fine green powder. I guess I should have stuck them in a flame to see if I got an interesting blue tinge. There.. I've given you all something else to worry about other than Radium and Tritium.

if you had radium painted hands, might it contaminate the Rodico ? vin