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I had a little time just before I was leaving to look at the watch. I was going to see what the date was there's no date code on the back and the movement conveniently did not want to come out and I didn't really want to be handling it anyway. what I found interesting was that the burning was only on the crystal? Usually in the past if I've seen a radium burn it would be on the dial itself. With a hands and stayed stationary for a long time. But in some ways another example of without the crystal you can't look at the watch itself and see if that's radium.

Hi all ,a new study from the good folks at the University of Northampton has shown that we all forgot one essential fact: radium decays to radioactive radon GAS, which is readily inhaled and will in sufficient doses significantly increase the risk of lung cancer. Radon is the second leading cause of lung cancer in the USA after cigarette smoking; the EPA estimates that radon is responsible for about 21,000 cancer deaths annually. but it seems that logical steps to take might include considering ventilation issues, and investing in a radon detector for the room in which you keep your collection (radon monitors are inexpensive and recommended for most homeowners anyway).

100 years is a little on the long side. If I remember when I'm at work again I'll look at the watch we could probably come up with a date of when the watch was made that would give us a clue. we run into problems with the subject. For instance how strong is the radium it has a half-life of thousands the years so that's not the issue of the half-life but how strongly did they mix it up? If you looked at the hand I had that was on the paper it's barely burned at all. Versus burning the crystal in the examples but as a guess that radium is probably a much higher concentration. Radium hands in a glass vial there's not a lot to burn other than the paper around it but I'm guessing they're too far away.

These have been in the watch bench for umpteen years. Glass vials. I don't see any indication of radium burn on the inside of the cover/lid.

the problem with radiation is typically you don't see it. There are examples of people seeing the effect of radiation usually the outcome on the people were very bad. really the best way to figure this out would be to find somebody with a Geiger counter preferably a sensitive one. Find out how much lead you need to isolate yourself from the radium. Unless of course you just isolate the item from you in the house or wherever you are. Then of course there is the other problem if you put it in your landline box you going to keep opening it up to look at it you might have to get some lead glass and that's probably going be considerably thicker than the lead itself. They might just be better to have a picture of it someplace in and put the item somewhere else away from people. then I have some pictures for you since you like pictures. The radium burn on the card that the hands are on isn't really that spectacular. Most people probably wouldn't even notice I just happen to know what it is. We also don't know how long they've been there we can guestimate when they last made hands with radium. that I knew we had something lurking in the shop I found it. As we can see a nice watch I should've set the hands C Elledge burning was on the dial I didn't think about that did very clearly see the crystals when burned.

Here is a project that is been going for several months. It came from my box-o-watches. It had a broken staff and a rusty stem and no crown. I cleaned and staffed it--got it running fine. Later on, I noticed there was a problem with the mainspring. It was slipping. I could not tell what was going on. I found a NOS mainspring on Ebay and installed it. Still had issues. Finally discovered that the issue was me. Not gonna air out my noob mistakes, but once I decided to focus and use my problem solving skills, I figured it out. The final thing to resolve was the stem and crown. I could never figure out if this case needed a case tube. I decided to put one on. I had some case tubes in the watch bench, but none fit perfectly, so I put one that was close on the lathe and turned it down to size. Found a crown among the watch graveyard that would work with the stem and the case tube. Oh, long time back, I found a crystal in my stuff--perfect fit. Today it is all together. I am a little concerned about the tube. I may need to put a dab of superglue on it. The hands and dial have radium. I wash my hands after working on it and frankly not worried. Nevertheless, I found an identical NOS dial and have ordered it. Maybe I will swap it out...maybe not. That is TBD. Pictures below.

Hi there John, a big variable here is that the age of radium burns isn't necessarily a function of the age of the watch, but rather of how long the watch has been stopped. And the materials that burn. The dial has damage as well as in the enamel shine of the black dial is gone from most of the dial. I quickly put the front cover back on because there was significant amounts of lume dust around. I will remove this when I service it. The Watch ran well when wound and kept spot on time for the day then I just let it wind down, I to have not seen crystal radium burn, but I am guessing that this watch looking at the case which is like new could have sat in the dark in its box for up to 60 years maybe. I will keep that crystal with the Watch as I think it is amazing for a collector. Cheers Graziano

my understanding is the military radium products are very very bad compared to the civilian. Usually the watchmaking point of view you'll see radium burn on the dial I've never seen it on a crystal. The other place where I see it is the old hand assortments. Hands were mounted on a piece of paper and the radium hands if you move the hand you can see where burn the paper. This even came up the other day somebody asked about it I showed him the hands the radium hands you could see the paper was burned. unfortunately for watch repair, you will see it as I said on dials occasionally the hand assortments if you're still on the paper occasionally. The problem watch repair is things like the hand assortments there's a brand-new hand assortments from whatever it doesn't have a date on it most people wouldn't know the radium unless you knew what to look for. Unless you have a Geiger counter you don't know that that nice assortment a hands that you bought some of them are radium. So unfortunately the radium stuff is still around unless you have a Geiger counter unless it burns the paper a dial or crystal he can't look at him and tell entirely. Then you only see the burn if it stays in one place long enough to burn something.

Hello Micheal1962, I picked this up from a gentleman who sells antique and vintage items out of Tasmania on ebay. I have a few of these ww2 Elgin pocket watches and this one is very interesting as it has the original box and crystal with the radium burn. That shows that it has sat somewhere for years and years in the box. Not very often you come across radium burn. Have a great day Micheal

Here is a cool piece of history that I picked up. It's a ww2 military Elgin nos with the original crystal, check out the radium burn. The Watch stopped at 2.30. It works well. I will service it soon, it has a 594 movement. The original box and bag is displayed. Cheers Graziano

Some really valid and pertinent advice and opinions thank you everyone. Yes this is a difficult one. I felt right from the moment I saw the watch that it was potentially a "mistake" to do a lot to this one as it is almost certainly all original and has papers and boxes. ... It's a difficult one for the owner because I can understand the wish to be able to make it look "sexy" or "new" again and relive it's glory days and those of his Dad who bought it new. I will have an honest and now somewhat more informed discussion with him and see what he says. Delgetti I had not thought of the potential for Radium either which is important so thank you for tweaking my mind to this potential risk. I will investigate that possibility more and see if I can get any answers regarding this model of Tudor and the use of Radium. Thank you again to you all so far abd feel free to keep the opinions and insights coming. Luke

I was pondering this topic again this morning. Here is another Radiation dose chart that looks like similar data as above but formatted differently. I am also posting a document produced by the NRC. A screen capture of the most interesting page that relates to watches and watchmakers is also posted here. My Dad worked on watches six days a week, 51 weeks a year from 1947 to 1980 (he continued working after 1980 but only a few days per week). There was radium lume for re-luming hands and dials in his watchbench for that entire time until last year when I removed it. He lived 92 years. Cause of death was a combination of blood loss and heart failure. Until the last year, he lived a full and active life. He was prone to use those nasty chemicals to kill bugs in the yard...that were later banned. I don't think, anecdotally, that radium had any observable effect on him. Radium exposure.pdf

I would try to get some opinions from vintage tudor experts, who don't have commercial interest. The whole rolex and tudor (which is some kind of sister brand to rolex) vintage world exploded some years ago into complete price madness. So this watch (if genuine of course) could be worth several thousand bucks for a collector, especially because it has a "SWISS" marked early dial and a PCG (pointed crown guard)-case. Here is a link to give you an idea about original parts prices: https://tswisst.de/tudor-ersatzteile/rolex-zeigersatz-fuer-tudor-7928-3/ I would take some good pictures (daylight, smartphone-camera and 6 inches distance do the job) and ask your questions on www.rolexforums.com (as mentioned tudor is a sister brand so they deal with tudor too). A very good picture of the dial is essential, so it would be best to take the movement out of the case and take a pic then. BUT: The dial is marked "SWISS", much lume fell of the hands and the lume on the dial is black dirty. This shouts: Be careful, could be radium! So I personally would not open the watch. Maybe you can polish the plexiglass a bit to get a got pic of the dial? Anyway good luck with that piece. Nowadays about 98% of the rolex/tudor-talk is about money, I hate that. But I love such stories of watches with a personal history.

Hi guys, First proper post on the forum. Thanks again for having me. Just took receipt of an Omega Chronostop 145.010. Cracking watch but the hour hand has a lot of crud on it. Just wondering: 1. Is it rust or something else like decayed radium? 2. Any ideas on how to correct this? Risk removing the hands and going over it with pegwood or try and track down spare hands (having trouble finding them). Cheers in Advance, C

Hi there. Different countries had and still do different regulations,mostly related to tax purposes. Luminosity Explained Letters SWISS Luminous material Radium used until 1960 radioactive Letters T SWISS - T < 25 luminous material Tritium used from 1960 until 1998 radioactive, radioactivity less than 925 MBq (25 mCi) Letters T SWISS T luminous material Tritium used from 1960 until 1998 radioactive, radioactivity less than 277 MBq (7,5 mCi) Letters SWISS OR SWISS MADE luminous material Superluminova used from 2000 not radioactive Then you have the Swiss made markings legislation to protect the integrity of Swiss watch companies https://www.cosc.swiss/en/quality/swiss-made-controlled-label Hope this helps

I'm posting this here as I think it will be of interest to anyone working with radium dials and watches. I would suggest that there is actually very little measurable risk from handling a few radium watch hands, so long as you wash your own hands afterwards, and make sure that you don't grind up significant amounts of the material and release it in to the air. The point here being that you would need significant amounts. Grams of dust, not a few microgrammes. You have to bear in mind that the materials involved are indeed radioactive, and that they present a hazard, but that hazard is a cumulative one. In other words the radiation they produce would need to be present for a considerable period of time and in significant amounts to produce a measurable statistical risk. In the environment around us at all times, there are similar levels of radioactive materials to the amount you would be encountering in a watch hand. Even the humble banana is very very very slightly radioactive, due to the fact that it is a good source of potassium (which we need for our biological health), some of which is naturally radioactive. We are perfectly capable of dealing with the tiny amount of damage this radiation does. We probably receive far more DNA damage walking around on a nice sunny day in the snow, from ultraviolet light. Our biology is designed to deal with this in the same way that we deal with a cut finger or any other damage. Radiation damage from alpha and beta emitters (like radium) is generally very low level. The harm would come if you treated the stuff the same way the Radium Girls, who painted radium dials for a living did. They absorbed many millions of times more radium than you would ever be exposed to from a few minutes directly handling the radium in a few watch hands. I've posted the chart below a few times, but it is relevant. I would estimate your dose from staying in the room where a few watch hands have been exposed to the elements for a few hours, would not even be measurable. It certainly wouldn't increase background levels by any significant amount. If, for a dare, you were crazy enough to eat the watch hands, you would mainly ingest some steel, some zinc sulphide and a tiny amount of radium. You would excrete the majority of the radium, but a tiny tiny amount of an already tiny amount *might* be absorbed, but you would probably absorb more radioactivity from eating a few bananas. The most dangerous thing about eating them might be from the obvious risk of eating sharp bits of metal. I am obviously not advocating eating watch hands, radioactive or otherwise. If you have already cleaned up the surfaces that might have had a few micrograms of radium on them, then you will be unlikely to be able to measure any increase in background radiation levels. If you were still concerned, then take some measurements with a Geiger counter of the general background radiation elsewhere. In the kitchen for an hour, in the garden for an hour, in your workplace perhaps for an hour, and get a good feeling for what is normal, then re-measure in the area that you are worried about. I would doubt if you can detect anything above background. Even if the area seems to have slightly higher levels than normal, this may still be normal, and may have existed prior to your watch hand work. Take a look at the above chart and you will see that you need significantly higher levels to warrant concern. If you live in Aberdeen for example, or Devon, or anywhere that there is granite in the local geology, then you will naturally be exposed to slightly higher levels of radiation from uranium, radon and other naturally occurring radioactive materials than you would in say Dover which is geologically mainly chalk and limestone. This does not lead to any significant risk. Aberdonians do not grow two heads or glow in the dark as a result.

I have an Elgin 8 day aircraft instrument panel clock that I would like to get overhauled. It runs but sometimes stops and has to be tapped to start it back up. Unfortunately it has a radium dial and I have not been able to find a shop that will overhaul it because of the radium. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Denis

Generally watches are "sealed units" in other words, the watch is designed to keep dust, dirt, moisture and so forth out of the watch. For this reason, anything inside the watch will stay in it, and anything outside the watch will stay out. Obviously if you open and service the watch there is the potential for radium dust to escape, but the quantities are miniscule. As various people have mentioned, unless you actually plan on eating the radium hands, then the risk of radiation damage from them is almost immeasurably small. Radium is not something to be messed with, but neither is it likely to harm you if you act sensibly. If you do plan on working with radium based lume or other radioactive lume (tritium etc), then pop on your covid mask and gloves, wash your hands afterwards and don't go grinding up the lume in to dust and you will be fine. The majority of the lume is actually not radium, but a material that emits light when stimulated by alpha or beta radiation. Zinc sulphide powder has been the most widely used luminescent material. Most of the lume is therefore harmless, but since it is bound up with a small quantity of radioactive material (the radium) you need to assume it is all potentially hazardous, even if it is no longer luminous. The level of hazard is low for a single watch. Radium emits Alpha and Beta radiation mainly. The vast majority of the radiation is absorbed by the luminescent material. What does escape from that is absorbed by the case, crystal, dial and so forth. Therefore storing a radium containing watch with other stuff is not a significant problem, so long as the watch case and crystal are intact. Even if they are not, the risk is pretty small. You would probably see similar levels of radiation coming from a granite work top (uranium, radon, etc.), or possibly even from a bunch of bananas (potassium). Don't loose any sleep over it, but equally don't let anyone eat the watch, as that would present a choking hazard.

Trouble is he is not here with me and secondly I don't want to frighten him if there is no way the radium watch (not uranium as I posted) could possible contaminate his watch just by being in the same cupboard. I don't know enough to make that call but I'm sure someone on here has that expertise. I imagine owners keep several watches together with radium ones? I may be getting a bit paranoid but I need some advice please

Yes you should be concerned about Radium as it makes toast taste like rubbish. Not recommended. Good reason to not eat it. ?

I have purchased a geiger counter - GMC 320 plus from a specialist shop in Croydon, UK. It reads Beta and Gamma but not Alpha. I have used it on an old watch I have been given and it indicates it has uranium on the dial/hands which surprised me. This old watch has been in an enclosed corner cupboard with other items and watches. One of these watches belongs to my grandson and I am anxious to know if it is safe for him to use being in proximity of the radium watch. Also, I do not want to keep the old radium watch. How and where can I dispose of it in the UK? Many thanks for any advice as I'm a bit unsure how radiation works.

Hello there, Since some time now i wonder if there are any health and safety risks in this hobby. For almost two years now I repair watches as a hobby now and occasionally i noticed a hint or two regarding some risky materials. As Beryllium for example is in many alloys in use for watch movements for example and Beryllium alloys are often described as "very poisonous". Also i wonder if any of the oils or cleaning products are hazardous... As i never enjoyed a proper tradeshool or anything like that and i could not find proper information about health and safety risks regarding hobby watch rapairing, I am very curious about your input. Regards and greetings from Styria, Austria.

I think for a little light reading you can start at the link below. We already have an ongoing discussion. Then the problem with this entire discussion is it's not black and white. Radium is definitely bad but? If it's on your wrist shooting little particles of whatever into your wrist to have any proof of cancer caused by that? On the other hand if you had one of the early dollar pocket watches covered with radium on the hands in the dial like equivalent to several wristwatches worth and of course you carried in your pocket faithfully for 20 years that we would probably have a different discussion. I think simplistically the basic rule is if you leave it alone it will leave you alone. Which works out fine for dials anyway because always problematic if you're trying to clean a refinished them yourself. https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/10726-should-i-be-worried-about-radium/

Forgive me if this goes a too far from the intention of the OP, but I think it is relevant to ask, "Does anyone have any knowledge as to issues with exposure to the amount of radium one might come into contact with as a hobbyist watch fettler?" My very superficial understanding is that people (girls mostly) who wold use radium paint to apply it to original watch dials gained harmful exposure by pointing their pain bruised in their mouths as they worked. Should the amateur or even professional be afraid of the amount of radium they might find on old watch hands?

Seiko dial codes are a mere part number identifier. A R in there doesn't mean, and has never meant Radium, which has been completely been banned in 1968. And even before then, it's use in the industry had already dropped to almost zero, because the potential health issues were well known already. So, no need to be paranoid, you can wear and work on any Seiko in total safety. You can also check SCWF - thewatchsite.com for any discussion about.