My first Anniversary clock!

[2131tom]

A good point (and I do now feel as if I could put the movement back together in my sleep). 

One final (?) hurdle passed tonight, which means I can hand responsibility back to its owner later this week.

The clock was running impossibly slow, losing 10 minutes an hour, even with the weights at their full inward setting.  That sent me back to looking up info on the web, which went on about pendulum weights, length of spring, frictional losses, and spring gauge.

Fortunately, I'd ordered new Horolovar 0.004" springs, which I knew were correct for this clock so before doing anything else I thought I'd fit one on the off-chance.  What a difference it made.  Clearly, the spring that came with the clock and otherwise looked perfectly fine was anything but.  There was an instant turnaround of 15 mins an hour and, with plenty of adjustment still to go at, I'm now down to sorting out an minute or so per hour.

I think that can wait until tomorrow, but it does make me wonder what other insults could have been done to this poor clock by its previous owner/repairer(s) that they hadn't done already.         

[oldhippy]

When ever you get one of these clocks to repair it is good practise to always re-place the s/spring with a new Horolovar one.

I don't know if you have the book on these clocks but it is a must for all who repair these clocks. Don't know what happend here with it all in red, I just copied and paste.

This is the one you want. here is a link http://stores.thehorolovarcompany.com/horolovar-400-day-clock-repair-guide/

Horolovar 400 Day Clock Repair Guide

[2131tom]

Thanks, I received a copy of the 10th edition through the post on Friday and very good it is too.

As a tailpiece, over the weekend I came across an empty cardboard Horolovar spring label in amongst the packing the clock was sent to me in the other week.  It had .0037" -  .094mm stamped on it.  I'm assuming this was the packet from which the spring I've just discarded came from, which would confirm that was weaker than the .004" recommended.

[clockboy]

On 2/2/2019 at 11:35 PM, 2131tom said:

A good point (and I do now feel as if I could put the movement back together in my sleep). 

One final (?) hurdle passed tonight, which means I can hand responsibility back to its owner later this week.

The clock was running impossibly slow, losing 10 minutes an hour, even with the weights at their full inward setting.  That sent me back to looking up info on the web, which went on about pendulum weights, length of spring, frictional losses, and spring gauge.

Fortunately, I'd ordered new Horolovar 0.004" springs, which I knew were correct for this clock so before doing anything else I thought I'd fit one on the off-chance.  What a difference it made.  Clearly, the spring that came with the clock and otherwise looked perfectly fine was anything but.  There was an instant turnaround of 15 mins an hour and, with plenty of adjustment still to go at, I'm now down to sorting out an minute or so per hour.

I think that can wait until tomorrow, but it does make me wonder what other insults could have been done to this poor clock by its previous owner/repairer(s) that they hadn't done already.         

The strength of the suspension springs is critical a touch too strong or weak and you will run out of adjustment. I have in the past, thinned a suspension spring to reduce the strength just a touch. 

[Bod]

Be aware that the Horolovar 400 Day Clock Repair Guide, has some clocks wrongly identified.

Mostly, back plates attributed Phillipp Haas, were actually made by Philip Hauck, a different firm altogether.

The newer clocks, the information is good, it came from the manufactures mainly in the 1950's.  Pre war and earlier information is researched, and as new information comes to light, then corrections have to be made.  

But the service and set up information is the best available.

Don't touch either the pallets (if adjustable) or the Eccentric nut, unless all else has failed.

 

Bod

(Who has a Hauck clock)

[2131tom]

Thanks for that, Bod.

Having done one torsion clock (see thread above) a friend then popped out of the woodwork with another.

I got the clock to go but it wouldn't keep time, no matter how the weights etc. were adjusted, so I had to do what Clockboy suggested earlier and thin the spring down a shade.  That was 3 weeks ago and it's been fine since, so I'm hoping any problems are permanently cured.

I'm currently doing a BHA/Becker, but this time for myself.  The movement's been fine but a lot of cleaning's been needed to get it looking anything like it should.

I'm afraid rightly or wrongly I've now set my heart on a JLC Atmos clock and I think I'm going to have to save up hard for one.  They're priced quite reasonably in the US (because a lot more were exported there?) but on this side of the pond, where I'd avoid hideous postage costs and import duties from UK customs, they're at least a couple of times dearer. 

Decisions, decisions ……...      

Edited March 3, 2019 by 2131tom

[Bod]

2131tom, be very careful buying an Atmos clock, they are very prone to bad handling, by anyone who doesn't know them.

My neighbour had one, it cost a fortune to have it put right,after a house move by professional house removals company.

The clocks need to be locked correctly before any movement,  I refused to even do the summer/winter time changes on it, she understood!

Goodness knows what damage the house clearance people did to it in the end....

 

Bod

[wls1971]

2 hours ago, 2131tom said:

I'm afraid rightly or wrongly I've now set my heart on a JLC Atmos clock and I think I'm going to have to save up hard for one.  They're priced quite reasonably in the US (because a lot more were exported there?) but on this side of the pond, where I'd avoid hideous postage costs and import duties from UK customs, they're at least a couple of times dearer. 

Decisions, decisions ……...   

They may seem cheap in America but if they require a service or replacement parts the cost of ownership can be horrendous, I sent mine for a service about 15 years ago no replacement parts where needed but Jaeger charged £475.00 at the time and the clock was gone for 7 months, cheap Atmos clocks are usually cheap for a reason and non of them good for the wallet.

[2131tom]

Thanks for the good advice.  I was already hesitating because of the reputation the clock has if it's not in 100% order and, if I was to buy, I was thinking I probably buy from an established dealer in the UK who would give a guarantee, and I could at least go back to in person if needed.

  

[clockboy]

Thanks for the info Bod I have used the "Horolovar 400 Day Clock Repair Guide" as my bible for many years. As yet it has not failed me but there is always a first time for anything. I suppose providing it is still giving the correct suspension spring length and strength then the maker will be of little consequence for most. 

[Bod]

Having bought a 400 day clock at a car boot, because I liked the disc pendulum, the learning curve started!

The suspension wire was missing, but that was it, so I thought.

Investigating the clock, through luck and a charity shop, the Horolovar book was found.

The clock was a P Haas, missing the top suspension gimbal, (always lost) rare as hens teeth apparently.

Found one in Australia, via e-bay described as Haas/Hauck.  Fork and bottom block from India, American suspension wire,  to fit a German clock in the UK.

Found the NAWCC website.  https://mb.nawcc.org/forums/400-day-atmos.15/

Gradually after much reading all was revealed, Haas never made Torsion clocks, confirmed by a Haas family member, after Terwilligers death, so was not included in the 10th edition.

As far as I can gather, there are very few other problems with the book, mainly misidentification of back plates, although the information regarding suspensions for these plates is correct.

I shall soon start a new topic asking for opinions on what I've got.  It's been through clock repairers at least twice, going by the marks under the pendulum, and has some "interesting" modifications.  But runs reliably slowly.

 

Bod 

[oldhippy]

With you guys talking about the Horolovar 400 Day Clock Repair Guide and its mistakes reminded me of finding one. It was one of the Kudo miniatures the S/spring is to strong.

[luiazazrambo]

Hi *,

I have a similar Kundo clock with the same back plate. Could someone send me a 1:1 copy of the suspension spring from the Horolovar Repair Guide please?

Best regards,

Lui

[watchweasol]

Hi   I have Terwilligers 400th edition and a look at it, there are many Kundo 400 days  The best thing is if you can post a clear picture of the back plate we can hopefully identify the type from that and then scan the relavent page for you.  hope that is helpfull for you      cheers

[luiazazrambo]

On 4/5/2020 at 11:30 AM, watchweasol said:

Hi   I have Terwilligers 400th edition and a look at it, there are many Kundo 400 days  The best thing is if you can post a clear picture of the back plate we can hopefully identify the type from that and then scan the relavent page for you.  hope that is helpfull for you      cheers

Hi, aww... I forgot to click on the "follow button" so I have not received a notification about your post and just opened a new topic for it: kundo Thank you for the offer, I believe I have the same movement as Mattaphysics:

 

 

[watchweasol]

Hi  there are two types of this clock  one has a straight anchor pin the other has a cranked anchor pin, depending on type they require different springs. Hope these images are ok  cheers

[OscaZig]

On 1/18/2019 at 1:26 PM, Mattaphysics said:

Ok then that settles that. Yeah I thought I saw it titled Horolovar 400 day clock repair so it stands to reason that it's probably the most informative.

I was also looking on one of my favorite sites on the net: clockworks.com I'm not sure if you're familiar with it but it has a wonderful clock repair kit with a comprehensive e-book with a repair guide for cuckoo clocks, anniversary clocks, spring driven and weight driven clock repair. Also with that you get an oiler with oil, cleaning solution, visor, level, brass brush, hand/gear puller and a mainspring letdown key all for $69. Seems like a great deal for all that and I'm fairly certain is not all Chinese crap either.

I need to get a staking set and anvil, a better hammer, decent screwdrivers, (also unsure as to what the best ones for clock repair are) bushings and the necessary tools to do that work, all at a smaller price point.

I don't have the funds to shell out atm for everything I want. Also I'm only in the hobby phase for now. I am, more and more coming to truly enjoy working on clocks and watches and am considering doing this for a source of income. When you can turn a hobby into a job it's a win-win.

Sent from my Z956 using Tapatalk
 

 

On 2/1/2019 at 11:21 AM, oldhippy said:

Its always a job to diagnose a fault without seeing the movement. Nice to know you have it sorted.

Pushing on the wheel train to act as its power can give a false impression on how the movement will act. I know it takes longer but it is best to have everything in its correct place.  

 

The Horolovar book gives very little information on Gustav Becker anniversary clocks ! Nor does it have any diagrams for Gustav Becker suspension springs, the positioning of the spring,top block,bottom block or fork. It shows diagrams for many other clocks, but not Becker. Disappointing. 

[Dell]

On 9/22/2024 at 6:09 PM, OscaZig said:

 

The Horolovar book gives very little information on Gustav Becker anniversary clocks ! Nor does it have any diagrams for Gustav Becker suspension springs, the positioning of the spring,top block,bottom block or fork. It shows diagrams for many other clocks, but not Becker. Disappointing. 

With Gustav Becker torsion clock add top block and hang it on saddle then put pendulum onto something about 6mm thick cut torsion spring to length ( middle of pendulum hook ) add bottom block then start with fork fitted appropriately midway between saddle and backplate then adjust up or down from there, the diagrams in the book are only a starting point anyway but usually close but quite a few don’t have diagrams.