Hamilton Railroad 992, 21j problem...maybe?

[Sean]

Good day oracles of mechanical knowledge, I have a pondering issue and was curious whether this anomaly is cause for concern. I own several pocket watches (8, or 9?). Howards, key wound/set, early Elgins...but this silver cased Hamilton has me scratching my head. All of my watches will start to keep time with a couple of twists of the stem ratchet (or quarter turns of the key as may be the case.) but this Hamilton model 992 won't.  This particular watch seems to have to be wound an awfully long time and only once it is fully wound will it begin to keep time. Once it is running it keeps time just fine, I've had it running for weeks on end and it doesn't appear to speed up or slow down. Is it normal for a watch to have to be completely wound before it keeps time? If not (as I suspect), what could be the cause of the problem? 

Thanks in advance,

Seán

[Nucejoe]

What actual power dose it reserve?  Wind fully see how long it runs on full wind, that gives and idea of MS strength and actual power delivery.

Out of beat impulse jewel can also be the cause.Partially wind like two or three turns, Dose it keep on runing? If shaken to kick start the runing? 

Dirty jewels can cause this , A droplet of kerosene, avgas or lighter fluid etc,  on the top jewel assembly and on lower pivot, temoprarly acts as lubricants, frees the pivots of congealed oil. 

Providing such data, is greately helpful to  members for proper diagnostic.

Regards joe.

 

 

[Nucejoe]

If it wont get to full wind, Mainspring is broken, which you should hear the sound of (as it dislodges )coming from the barrel.  Listen close to barrel for a sound of sudden power discharge.

[Sean]

Thanks Nucejoe; The watch will wind. Once fully wound it will run and keep time for better than 36 hours or perhaps more, but not 48.

If I wind it two or three turns, it will not run. 

I haven't counted exactly how many full turns my other watches will wind until they stop at fully wound, but this Hamilton 992 would take twice as many turns until it reaches its stop (its a ridiculous amount of time on the ratchet and it's kind of stiff).

As my other watches don't behave this way, I'm assuming something is wrong? 

If someone replaced a broken main spring with the wrong one, would the watch conceivably act the way I'm describing?   

Pic for entertainment factor, I assume you are all familiar with these movements.

[Nucejoe]

Hi sean , No I am not familiar with amreican pocket watches, just general diagnostics.

Runing for 36hrs, means the MS is not  broken nor dose it's end  dislodge from the barrel wall neither from barrel arbor. The actual power reserve is 36 hrs or more, so mainspring is healthy though can be the wrong one, on the other hand the MS is got to unusally long, which brings up the question , how that extra length did get packed in limited space inside the barrel. I am not rejecting you suspecion on the length though.

I am inclined to think, stiffness is due to faulty mesh in wind mech, if so,  you should see signs showing material damage at the teeth of the gears when you strip down. So lets wait for more response to come in, if it came down to what I suspect , you may want to remove the ratchet wheel and barrel bridge to check. 

If you removed the barrel , check the  inside for sign of slippage on its wall.

Check the click spring, if  malfunctions ot can let power slipaage and if stuck underneath the ratchet wheel makes it get stiff.

Keep us posted please. Regards. Joe

[Sean]

14 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Hi sean , No I am not familiar with amreican pocket watches, just general diagnostics.

Runing for 36hrs, means the MS is not  broken nor dose it's end  dislodge from the barrel wall neither from barrel arbor. The actual power reserve is 36 hrs or more, so mainspring is healthy though can be the wrong one, on the other hand the MS is got to unusally long, which brings up the question , how that extra length did get packed in limited space inside the barrel. I am not rejecting you suspecion on the length though.

I am inclined to think, stiffness is due to faulty mesh in wind mech, if so,  you should see signs showing material damage at the teeth of the gears when you strip down. So lets wait for more response to come in, if it came down to what I suspect , you may want to remove the ratchet wheel and barrel bridge to check. 

If you removed the barrel , check the  inside for sign of slippage on its wall.

Check the click spring, if  malfunctions ot can let power slipaage and if stuck underneath the ratchet wheel makes it get stiff.

Keep us posted please. Regards. Joe

Thanks kindly Joe; I await things like a loupe, screwdrivers, tweezers, etc. Once I get into it, no doubt there will be many other questions.

Yours,

Seán 

[Nucejoe]

I hope you have worked on watches enough. This is a rare, collectible and valuable watch.

These aren,t your first set of tools, are they?

I am not runing away, just hate to help ruin your watch. 

Regards joe

[Nucejoe]

Hi sean,  Ok, A data sheet on this calib, helps . NWCCA is likely to provide us with info,s. 

Help is almost on personal basis at watchrepairtalk. 

I got my tools and am ready . 

Regards

 

[Sean]

Thanks kindly Joe.