US members - AWCI Build A Watch class - Anyone take?

[phydaux]

I'm considering taking this class. Has anyone here taken it?

I'm balking a little at the price tag - $1245.00 US. I'm already comfortable with casing up a naked movement. Will this class get more "under the hood" regarding the movement? Detail disassembly? Will it cover anything more than I could get out of Mark's videos?

[clockboy]

I did not join Marks course but the feedback I have received is very positive. A price tag of $1245.00 US is way to high IMO. 

[jdm]

The AWCI product is very similar to what I took with Cimier in Biel

That didn't come cheap either, however just like AWCIs, a large part of the cost is from the watch value in itself.

Of course there is always something to learn, In the end these aren't real watchmaking courses, just a chance to technically entertain oneself in a new location.

[david]

With the exception of the hair spring and watch jewels, most watch parts can be machined by the watchmaker.  If the AWCI course steps the student through the process of machining the pilar plates, cutting the gears, making the pivots, etc, etc, etc. Then it is probably worth the price. It the course consists of purchasing premanufactured parts and assembling them, then it should be called a course in assembling watch parts  and not advertised as  making a watch.

 A few years ago I took the TIME ZONE WATCH COURSES (1,2,3). and learned a great deal. The course included  purchasing an inexpensive Chinese movement (or any movement the student wished to purchase), taking it apart, cleaning the parts, reassembling the parts, lubricating the watch and setting the timing.  Marks course is probably much better but did not exist at that time. At the end of the course the student had a watch they could wear. I felt that it was a good course but I never would have paid $1200 plus dollars for it. The TIME ZONE course definitely could not have been called MAKING A WATCH.

The other side of this is whether the person want's to become a full time "professional" or work on watches for their own enjoyment. As with many other occupations having a diploma from a prostigious institution has a lot to do with where you will work and how much you will be paid. If you want to work on watches for your own enjoyment, then education is the only important aspect. Education can be achieved through courses like Mark's watch school, books, YouTube videos and, most importantly, practice, practice, practice.

As far I know Steffen Pahlow never went to a prestigious watch school, or for that matter, any watch school, yet produces incredible restoration and repair work. Phillippe de Four did go to a formal watch school and also produces incredible work. Watch school did not seem to be the determining factor in the quality of their work or their knowledge of the subject.  In the end it was up to them. 

david

[jdm]

20 minutes ago, david said:

With the exception of the hair spring and watch jewels, most watch parts can be machined by the watchmaker. If the AWCI course steps the student through the process of machining the pilar plates, cutting the gears, making the pivots, etc, etc, etc. Then it is probably worth the price. It the course consists of purchasing premanufactured parts and assembling them, then it should be called a course in assembling watch parts  and not advertised as  making a watch.

David, the AWCI one never pretends to be watchmaking training. It's a single day session correctly called 'Build A Watch'.https://www.awci.com/buildawatch/

Quote

 

A few years ago I took the TIME ZONE WATCH COURSES (1,2,3). and learned a great deal. The course included  purchasing an inexpensive Chinese movement (or any movement the student wished to purchase), taking it apart, cleaning the parts, reassembling the parts, lubricating the watch and setting the timing.  Marks course is probably much better but did not exist at that time. At the end of the course the student had a watch they could wear. I felt that it was a good course but I never would have paid $1200 plus dollars for it. The TIME ZONE course definitely could not have been called MAKING A WATCH.

 

Going by this definition, 99% of the even good "watchmakers" around are not able to make a watch, terminology aside!

I think we all agree that parts making can be learned only from a "real school" or books and self-teaching. And that for 99% of the forum members here it's not even realistic ambition.

[david]

JDM,

Then it is just a one day session assembling watch parts to form a watch. Do you feel that the price AWCI charges is worth it?  I personally feel that a person could gain a lot more knowledge from Mark's courses than a one day session from the AWCI. This was the initial question that was asked by PHYDIUX. 

david

[jdm]

13 hours ago, david said:

Then it is just a one day session assembling watch parts to form a watch. Do you feel that the price AWCI charges is worth it?  I personally feel that a person could gain a lot more knowledge from Mark's courses than a one day session from the AWCI. This was the initial question that was asked by PHYDIUX. 

As mentioned above, a consistent part of the price is from the watch itself, which you keep. Since they use an original ETA, mov.t and (I suppose) Swiss case and quality strap, that brings the retail price $500 or more. Once you add the location rent, instructor compensation and organization expenses I think that its price is not exaggerated.

Again, it's clear that one-day "intense fun" physical sessions are not comparable to Mark's video training or any other form of remote learning. Different products for different goals.  

Edited April 14, 2019 by jdm

[jdm]

On 4/13/2019 at 1:27 AM, phydaux said:

Will this class get more "under the hood" regarding the movement? Detail disassembly? Will it cover anything more than I could get out of Mark's videos?

From the description: assemble the ETA 6497 movement, lubricate the moving parts
So, the student doesn't disassemble but starts from the parts in trays. The Cimier session doesn't cover lubrication, and the balance is fitted by their technician to avoid costly accidents. I don't know what AWCI does in that regard.

The obvious difference with video training is that you have the instructor there to answer all your questions, and give practical help and suggestions to you directly. On the other hand, Mark's videos cover many more subjects that putting together a pocket watch mov.t and case it, and you can take the lessons at your own pace.

Personally I took the session in Biel mainly as Swiss summer holiday, like an alternative to e.g. cruise. It wasn't cheap, but Mrs jdm and I enjoyed it, plus the airline hosted us free three more nights in Geneva because of a cancelled flight. The beautiful Unitas with the Cimier in-house automatic modification will stay as memorabilia, or find a new house with a collector in the future, in the end it was money well spent for me.

[david]

From your posts it appears that you are familiar with both the one day session and Mark's course. In that case would you advise PHYDAUX to take the one day course for $1245.00 or Mark's course?

david

[jdm]

4 hours ago, david said:

From your posts it appears that you are familiar with both the one day session and Mark's course. In that case would you advise PHYDAUX to take the one day course for $1245.00 or Mark's course?

I'll repeat the point that I'm trying to make:

Again, it's clear that one-day "intense fun" physical sessions are not comparable to Mark's video training or any other form of remote learning. Different products for different goals.  

So, no advice from me except than one should understand the purpose of (any) product before buying it.

 

[m1ks]

On 4/13/2019 at 4:34 PM, jdm said:

The AWCI product is very similar to what I took with Cimier in Biel

 

I have just had a read through that thread and this sounds like a truly memorable and incredible day and something I would love to learn more about.
Could you send me further information and possibly contact details for this or similar please.
Nice choice of dial incidentally though I really liked the white faced one.