The postman's called

[Johnnie]

Hi all, the postman has just knocked with my latest purchases ! Each owing me the sum of £3.27 each including postage. The pocket watch is a "runner" but I haven't got a clue what it is, or was before the case went missing? The Oris looks ok, but the balance spring is all over the place, and the Rondamatic also looks clean but again the balance spring is total mess! More like a rat's nest. 

[Johnnie]

PS, any idea how to remove stem and crown from the Rondamatic? The silver button and the indent either side of the stem does nothing, nor the screw, I am stumped ! The balance spring appears to be glued??? And is wrecked I think.

[AndyHull]

So far as I recall, you press the silver button to the right of the stem in the picture. I can't be certain which position you need to be in, but I think it was the wind position.

The hairspring... 5 minutes and you will have that sorted

It does look unfankleable but you will have your work cut out. The real question is why is it mangled in the first place. Has something jammed up and "bounced" the spring out of the side of the balance, or is this simply the result of fat thumb trouble on the part of the previous owner?

[Johnnie]

Hi Andy, the previous owner of all the above watches has had a go at them all ! He said, " the Rondamatic was running fast and the Oris was slow, so got his mate to adjust them and they both stopped" ! Can't imagine why lol. I will try your suggestion about the stem removal. They were cheap and ideal for me to practice on, and the bonus is I know out there there is someone worse than me ! Thanks Andy for your time and advice. 

[AndyHull]

1 hour ago, Johnnie said:

Hi Andy, the previous owner of all the above watches has had a go at them all ! He said, " the Rondamatic was running fast and the Oris was slow, so got his mate to adjust them and they both stopped" ! Can't imagine why lol. I will try your suggestion about the stem removal. They were cheap and ideal for me to practice on, and the bonus is I know out there there is someone worse than me ! Thanks Andy for your time and advice. 

No worries. The Oris balance is probably saveable. The Rondamatic may need a new balance (which are available), but if you want some practice, you might take a crack at fixing that hairspring.

In this case, I would suggest removing the hairspring  from the bridge, by unscrewing the pin screw then taking a good long look at it under some good magnification in good light to try to figure out what origami skills you will need to bring to bear. When the hairspring damage is less severe, i tend to leave them attached to the bridge and work on them in the watch. The "correct" way to do this involves some tools that I don't have, but in most cases you can get by without.  

If it proves too damaged to sort, then you will at least have learned a bit about the noble art of hairspring massage. I have given up on a few, as sometimes they simply snap when you try to un-kink them. You win some, you loose some.

If you do get it back in order, or even if you decide to replace it, the original problem with those two watches still remain. Most likely they simply need a good clean and service, and once adjusted they will be ticking away like new.

[Johnnie]

3 minutes ago, AndyHull said:

No worries. The Oris balance is probably saveable. The Rondamatic may need a new balance (which are available), but if you want some practice, you might take a crack at fixing that hairspring.

In this case, I would suggest removing the hairspring  from the bridge, by unscrewing the pin screw then taking a good long look at it under some good magnification in good light to try to figure out what origami skills you will need to bring to bear. When the hairspring damage is less severe, i tend to leave them attached to the bridge and work on them in the watch. The "correct" way to do this involves some tools that I don't have, but in most cases you can get by without.  

If it proves too damaged to sort, then you will at least have learned a bit about the noble art of hairspring massage. I have given up on a few, as sometimes they simply snap when you try to un-kink them. You win some, you loose some.

If you do get it back in order, or even if you decide to replace it, the original problem with those two watches still remain. Most likely they simply need a good clean and service, and once adjusted they will be ticking away like new.

Again I will take your advice, the Rondamatic is twisted badly and as they are available I will go down that route. The Oris, I will try to sort out, have looked at Mark's YouTube video on sorting hair springs so will give it a go, nothing ventured nothing gained. Many thanks. 

[Johnnie]

The Rondamatic movement is numbered/cal 1239 25jewels "Grovana watch co" I have tried Cousin's as they do stock Ronda parts, but they don't list 1239 ! The Oris is marked 233-68E  and I can find very little on this either. If anyone has any ideas as to where I can look I would be most obliged. Everything I have done so far has been on Seikos and you can get most things readily, in fact in a greengrocers!  Now I realise that when my dad used to say "your problem is you just don't think" he was 100% right lol. 

[Johnnie]

Ref Rondamatic, it appears that the hairspring is glued, is this a special glue ? It is green and due to my very limited experience I have not seen hairsprings glued on. Any clues as to where I may get another spring balance from would help. As said I have tried Cousin's and eBay, Cousin's and eBay were brilliant for the Seikos that I have worked on but not much help concerning the Rondamatic. I am hoping that it's simply that I am looking in all the wrong places. Many thanks in advance. 

[Johnnie]

On 4/18/2019 at 1:04 PM, AndyHull said:

So far as I recall, you press the silver button to the right of the stem in the picture. I can't be certain which position you need to be in, but I think it was the wind position.

The hairspring... 5 minutes and you will have that sorted

It does look unfankleable but you will have your work cut out. The real question is why is it mangled in the first place. Has something jammed up and "bounced" the spring out of the side of the balance, or is this simply the result of fat thumb trouble on the part of the previous owner?

100% right. Crown in winding position, out it came easily. I had it pulled out ! Easy when you know how. Many thanks Andy 

[AndyHull]

I'm sure when I was repairing my old sicura which has an almost identical Rondamatic 1239 movement I came across the balance, mainspring, fork and balance staff as spares on ebay, but as it happened I didn't need any of them.  However I've just done a search and can only currently find the staff.

[AndyHull]

Well.. pretty pricey, but here is one. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RONDA-MATIC-cal-1238-automatic-swiss-Movement-Spares-Parts-Choose-From-List/143133641422?hash=item21536e0ace:m:m_WopSwuG21zF7L8oRXtoMg

Seller is in Poland, and the postage is steep, the part is more than you paid for the watch, so you would probably be better keeping an eye out for a better price, or even a whole mechanism with good balance. I suspect you could pick up a beat up, scrap ronda automatic for <£10 if you are prepared to keep checking every few days.

[AndyHull]

.. or you could try unfankling the current one.. what could possibly go wrong. As to being glued, it is probably shellac and would probaly dissolve in nail polish remover (acetone), or possibly denatured alcohol or perhaps isopropanol. I pretty sure the one I have is held in place with a screw, but it is not to hand, to check.

[AndyHull]

The 1236/1238/1239 service manual, if you don't already have it,  is here -> https://www.cousinsuk.com/PDF/categories/5544_Ronda 1236.21, 38.21, 39.21.pdf

 

[Nucejoe]

Hi,That HS is good to practice on. I recommend flying each wheel with new HS.

You got to first get them runing before you get a chance to diagnose the fault the led the mangler ruin them in the first place. 

The Oris movement is a ST caliber. Google ST96 ranfft.

Regards

 

 

 

 

[Johnnie]

Many thanks Joe 

[Johnnie]

Service manual now down loaded. Will keep watching eBay. And will have a look at the one in Poland too. Here is a photo of hair spring. Can't see me sorting it out, will try though. 

[Nucejoe]

Hi johhnie,  FHF produced 96 caliber as well, ranfft is always helpful.

What I am trying  saying is, the sorted out HS never gets to be as good as new.  Your  Oris for instance looks good enough to get reconditioned and  join your collecrion, certainly not with an imperfect HS. It is not a question of your competence rather the fact this HS is not worth all the work involved. 

Parts for FHF or ST are available. If the prices turned out outrageous, I,ll dive in my bag of tricks. 

Regards

[Johnnie]

Thanks Joe, if I can treat the Oris to a new HS that would be great. I have no chance of getting it good as new.. so hopefully I will be able to get one. 

[AndyHull]

The HS for the Ronda-matic might be easier to source than the complete balance, but that assumes the balance pinion pivots are in good order.

BTW Ranf mentions the glued hairspring that you spoke about. As I said, I think mine has a screw on the HS stud. 

Quote

Remarks
... in late samples glued hairspring terminal

 

[Johnnie]

Thanks Andy, glad it confirmed that it's glued ! I will check eBay daily I am sure one will turn up. Will push on with the Oris for now. 

[yankeedog]

never mind....

Edited April 19, 2019 by yankeedog
content

[Nucejoe]

2 minutes ago, yankeedog said:

the oris looks like france ebauche.

Very true ,Oris and FE look very much the same, if johnnie was HS ,Oris would be a close fit. Not dirct fit yes can be fly to resonate the ribht fit.

Now that a part is found ebay there is no need to fly one

[Johnnie]

France ebauche ! I am a bit confused. 

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, Johnnie said:

France ebauche ! I am a bit confused. 

FHF96 and ST96 or FHF-ST 96 both made caliber 96.

Yankee said the Oris look like france ebauche"  many movements look somewhat similair. I am sure you can find other movements that look similair to what is in your oris. 

It should say somewhere on the movement.  

[Johnnie]

 "FE 233-68 E21"  that is all I can see !