Is Rust An Insoluble Problem?

[WillFly]

I'm looking at a 1940s Swiss chrono on eBay at the moment. The pushers are jammed and there's a deal of black rust on the movement - mainly in the winding area - but the dial looks reasonable.

 

Rust in a movement can be a serious problem - is there a stage at which it just isn't worth cleaning and repairing?

 

[Mark]

Some are OK to clean up - this one is quite bad.

 

Surface rust comes off quite easily but when the corrosion has started to eat into the steel parts then it is best to replace those parts and this is where it can get complicated as a lot of those vintage chrono movements have limited parts availability.

 

As you can see from my article here: http://www.watchservices.co.uk/blog/2013/08/22/restoration-of-tag-heuer-movement-rusted-solid-valjoux-7730-7733/ you can get not bad results on occasion. But my general rule when taking on a job like this is to look at the steel parts - any rust that's gone black (from orange) then the part should be replaced (as long as they are available and within the clients budget). Any rust at all on the wheels or escapement then those parts should be replaced. 

 

I am working on two rusty Valjoux 7750's at the moment - one I just finished (video coming soon) and the other was so bad I have had to replace the whole movement.

[WillFly]

Thanks for that advice, Mark - this watch is advertised on eBay for £130 - or offer. I think that I shall bypass this one. It's a "Le Phare", which is a reasonable make, but not one worth spending probably the best part of £450+ on.

[autowind]

Looking at the case of that chronograph it looks like it has had a hard life,  if it was 100% perfect what would it be worth?  One in that condition is a bit like buying a used car and then finding it needs this doing and that doing and by the time you have finished paying out you have spent way beyond what it is worth.  Buying off Fleabay is risky at the best of times but I'm sure bargains can be had.

 

RogerC

[WillFly]

Quite right, Roger. I bought a Swiss chrono on eBay before Christmas for just a little more than the watch above would cost - and the one I bought was in very reasonable condition indeed. In fact, it's being cleaned, serviced and regulated by Mark as we speak! I think this is worth every penny of the total cost - but I think the Le Phare pictured above is too far gone - and the asking price, even for the age of the watch, is over the top.

 

Will

[sylvav]

Hello from France,

Thank you for this great forum and for the sharing of knowledge.

 

I also have 2 questions about rust and oxidation related to the restoration the higly rusted  7733 Tag Heuer Movement:

1 - what is the technique used to remove rust from the dial ?

2 - which was the product use to remove all the traces of oxidation ?

 

In advance thank you for the advices

[Mark]

 

1 - what is the technique used to remove rust from the dial ?

2 - which was the product use to remove all the traces of oxidation ?

 

 

 

 

1 - I would wager that you would not be able to remove rust from a dial without damaging the paintwork. This is a job for a professional watch dial restorer.

 

2 - There are products which can remove rust but at a cost to the finish of the part - depending on how deep the rust is you can use an abrasive brush (fibre glass brush or brass) to gently rub it away.

[Blacklab]

Have just been reading a blog about the restoration of a Jardur Chronograph with a badly rusted Valjoux 71 movement, The whole movement is given an initial 2 hour soak in Horolene clock cleaner prior to strip down. The author states that  "If you ever work on a rusty movement, make sure to soak it in acid or Horolene before taking it apart – it greatly lowers the chances of breaking off pivots". It does seem to have helped on this particular restoration, I think I will give it a try on the next basket case I fall for on fleabay.

[Mark]

Have just been reading a blog about the restoration of a Jardur Chronograph with a badly rusted Valjoux 71 movement, The whole movement is given an initial 2 hour soak in Horolene clock cleaner prior to strip down. The author states that  "If you ever work on a rusty movement, make sure to soak it in acid or Horolene before taking it apart – it greatly lowers the chances of breaking off pivots". It does seem to have helped on this particular restoration, I think I will give it a try on the next basket case I fall for on fleabay.

 

Was the Horolene diluted? That stuff is really potent!

[Blacklab]

Not sure, but its supposed to be 7 parts water 1 part Horolene.

[chadders1966]

Hi,

I'm after a bit of advice please. I got the attached Bergeon pin gauge set in a lot I bought recently. As you can see a few are missing, of the rest some have lost the actual measuring part. However a fair amount are still intact and accurate (measured with a micrometer) and will be very useful. However they all need cleaning, and some have rust although it appears to be a surface coating rather than part of the gauge having corroded. What would be the best way to clean these up and remove the rust without damaging or reducing the sizes of the gauges? Thanks

Stephen

 

 

[SSTEEL]

Put them in a dremel type tool, and using an abrasive rust removal block, or wire wool whilst the dremel is running, press lightly and you will find the rust vanish.

[Geo]

Use fine wire wool with some WD40 on it. Bearing in mind they are precision gauges and will be made to very high tolerances, I would keep away from abrasives as it would be easy to reduce the size of the pivots slightly.

[chadders1966]

Thanks, think I've got some 0000 wool somewhere. Photo isn't very good unfortunately but the pivots (the ones that are still there!) themselves are free of rust, it's the rest of the gauge that appears to have some surface contaminant and I don't want to risk using any abrasives.

Stephen

[RCDesign]

Easy - electrolysis! :)

 

Washingsoda + PSU + iron anode + water

 

[Geo]

It's my preferred method for removing rust from the inside of old motorcycle petrol tanks.

[oldhippy]

If you have a lathe use that with emery cloth or sticks and make sure it's very fine.

[Alaskamick]

RCDesign, can you please give details of the equipment you use in the electrolysis. I think it looks just the job and would like to give it a go. 

 

Thanks, Mike

[ro63rto]

RCDesign, can you please give details of the equipment you use in the electrolysis. I think it looks just the job and would like to give it a go.

Thanks, Mike

There's a few how to guides on youtube.

I've used this one for de rusting some old tools.

Suppose it's just a matter of scaling down quantities.

Removing Rust with Electrolysis - WOOD magazine

http://youtu.be/54ADeB6V1rQ

[Watchtime]

I love this electrolysis method. I would be interested in the details also...what kind of powersouce do I need for that.

[RCDesign]

I just used a simple small 2A 3-12V supply!

For removing rust most seem to use abt 12V but that is probably just because a battery charger is often found in the garage! 

Try 6-12V - when you get a nice "fizz" in the soda with power applied-just check your corroded part every 10s or so!

[david]

That is the best way I have found to remove rust. Both WASHING SODA and BAKING SODA will work but baking soda does not dissolve as well in the water. I prefer washing soda for this process. For smaller rust spots sometimes I will just soak the rusted piece in Phosphoric Acid for a few minutes.

david

[maclerche]

I have read about an early fluid which you can put a movement in if it is very rusty. I've seen it on watchguyuk! I just can't find a post about this because it's several years ago. Does anyone have an idea of what it can be for a liquid that dissolves the screws and other things that are gone fixed?

[rogart63]

Dissolving screws u can use Alum. Bergeon has a rust remover. Nothing i have tested though. Some  use vineger or baking soda. That i have tested and it works to some extent.  As long as there isn't to much rust damage it works. Alum i have used a lot. But that dissolves the iron screws compelety so take care. 

[DJW]

Here's a post you might be interested in!

http://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/377-broken-stem-inside-crown/#comment-2540