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Posted (edited)

Here's a new to me 1975 Caravelle watch I got off eBay for $15. It was listed as running and keeping good time and I was surprised that I was the only bidder.

 

The strap wasn't included.

 

caravelle2_01.jpg

 

 

It looks pretty ratty, but it's mainly the crystal that needs polishing or replacement. The case has got some plating wear, but I can live with that.

 

caravelle2_02.jpg

 

I put it on my time grapher before starting. It's running pretty well. I'm worried I'll make it worse...

 

As a side note, I noticed last night that the manual that came with my time grapher says, "Wei Shi". Chinese for Witschi? :D

 

caravelle2_03.jpg

 

Without the crystal she looks much prettier. I really like the dial, the style of the numerals and the contrasting second hand.

 

caravelle2_04.jpg

 

I was going to try to clean the dial a bit, but I think I'd be tempting fate and I like the way it looks with some age showing.

 

caravelle2_05.jpg

 

The 11dp movement looks nice cosmetically. Even the screws are in good shape. I was careful to keep them that way.

 

caravelle2_06.jpg

 

Time permitting, I'll clean it tomorrow and reassembled it next weekend. I'm a little nervous because this isn't a scrapper to me. I'm already fond of it.

 

caravelle2_07.jpg

 

It wasn't my intention to do a full write up of the dismantling, but if anyone is interested in the particulars of this movement, I've got a ton of photos I can add.

 

Don

Edited by Don
Posted

Thanks, Geo. I've got a little more experience now, so I'm pretty confident I'll be able to do it. I'll update when I'm done.

Posted

Thanks clockboy and Anil. Good eyes, Anil. The 11dp is a Citizen 0241. There's a stamp on the plate.

Posted

Nice movement - and a good find. I always find it interesting how makers use different movements for their watches over the years. Here's my Caravelle for contrast - quite a different movement.

post-64-0-36664100-1419154296_thumb.jpg

post-64-0-55476100-1419154299_thumb.jpg

  • Like 1
Posted

Don, that's watch is a Bobby Dazzler!  I really like the dial face too mate.

Good to see your posting lots of pics of the service.  That's how we all learn and get to see lots of different movements.

 

Please post more more more!! :)

Posted

Excellent job Don and yes, we will love to see the disassembly pictures! The watch is a keeper with very good looks and clean movement! Good choice and good deal!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

Posted (edited)

Thanks for the kind words and encouragement. I will definitely post the finished result or, if I run into problems, bug you all for advice.

 

Here are some more pics:

 

A little washer on the tube that I almost lost. You can see some of the wear on the case. Anyone know what "base metal" means? I was thinking of stripping off all the plating, but I don't want to leave the case with no protection from oxidization.

 

caravelle2_08.jpg

 

 

A retaining ring.

 

caravelle2_09.jpg

 

 

A picture of the bottom plate before starting. The winding pinion fell out when I removed the stem. Fortunately, I found it on my bench.

 

caravelle2_10.jpg

 

 

Dial washer and hour wheel removed

 

caravelle2_11.jpg

 

 

The plate covering the minute wheel and setting wheel is off

 

caravelle2_11b.jpg

 

 

Setting and minute wheels removed

 

caravelle2_11c.jpg

 

 

Cannon pinion removed.

 

caravelle2_11d.jpg

 

 

Cover plate/detent spring is off and you can see the setting lever spring

 

caravelle2_11e.jpg

 

 

Set spring? uncovered. This kind of little spring used to scare me, until I discovered the wonders of Rodico on the end of a stick of pegwood. Now I laugh at them.

 

caravelle2_11e.jpg

 

 

 

Set spring and yoke removed. The setting lever is made of two parts.

 

caravelle2_12.jpg

 

 

Here are two more pics of the setting lever parts. I'll have to spend some time figuring out how this two part setting lever works.

 

caravelle2_17.jpg

 

caravelle2_18.jpg

 

 

The lower balance shock protection system. Anyone know what this type is called?

 

caravelle2_19.jpg

 

 

 

Cap jewel off

 

caravelle2_20.jpg

 

 

The pierced jewel

 

caravelle2_21.jpg

 

 

That's it for the back of the plate.

Edited by Don
Posted

Hi Don,

 

I believe Citizen shock protection is "parashock" since this movement is made by them (or as nearly as I can tell) then it should be this type. On the other hand, I've seen some Chinese version using the same system. Maybe another member, with more experience in these movements can correct me if I'm wrong and shed some light on the issue.

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

Posted (edited)

Nice pics and great tip about the rodico for springs, I must remeber that!

I believe base metal is a zinc alloy (aluminium/zinc?).  It is similar to the stuff they used to make dinky/corgi toy cars and can easily be die-cast and machines easy.  I have polished it up in the past but it does oxidise quite quickly (goes matt grey).  I applied some clear lacquer.  It is usually plated over for better finishes and it is the plating that wears off.

Edited by canthus
Posted

The top of the main plate

 

caravelle2_22.jpg

 

 

After letting down the mainspring, I removed the balance

 

caravelle2_23.jpg

 

 

 

The hairspring looks to be in good shape.

 

caravelle2_24.jpg

 

 

Pallets removed and stored away safely

 

caravelle2_25.jpg

 

 

Ratchet wheel, click and click spring have been removed

 

caravelle2_26.jpg

 

 

Crown wheel and shim are off

 

caravelle2_27.jpg

 

 

Fourth wheel on top in the center, doing it's center seconds thing. Third wheel and escape wheel are visible. Can't quite make out the center wheel.

 

caravelle2_28.jpg

 

 

Third and fourth wheel are out of the way and you can see the center wheel underneath its bridge.

 

caravelle2_29.jpg

 

 

Center wheel looks pretty dirty. Dried lubricant?

 

caravelle2_30.jpg

 

 

With the barrel out of the way, all that's left is the center wheel

 

caravelle2_30.jpg

 

 

A closeup of the center wheel

 

caravelle2_32.jpg

 

 

NSFW - naked main plate

 

caravelle2_33.jpg

 

The last thing I did was open the barrel...

 

caravelle2_34.jpg

 

 

and remove and inspect the mainspring.

 

caravelle2_35.jpg

 

 

I appreciate any comments, especially with regards to any parts I have misnamed or things I should have done in a different order.

 

Thanks!

 

Don

  • Like 1
Posted

Thanks, Geo!

 

Looks like you are correct, Bob. Thanks.

 

parashock_diagram.jpg

 

The first time I took one of these apart, I wondered what the deal was with the pierced jewel. I see now that is flexes quite easily to take stress off the balance pivots.

 

Thanks for the info canthus. I guess I'll leave the plating alone. I wonder if I should even clean the case in the ultrasonic or just clean it gently by hand?

Posted

Hey Don,

 

That was an excellent walkthrough, with great clear pics.

You'll be surprised how much posting these reference pictures, and naming all the parts in your write-up, will help you grow and develop confidence.  Not only that, but you are helping others in the process learn as they enjoy following your progress.

 

Bravo mate!! :woohoo-jumping-smiley-emoticon:

  • Like 1
Posted

I would just hand clean the case with IPA/lighter fuel if very greasy or just soapy water and rinse and thorough dry asap.  Ultrasonic cleaner will probably remove even more plating!  The base metal corrosion is usually seen as pitting which the ultrasonics will make worse.

I polished a case to a lovely shine, and thought a final ultrasonic clean before lacquering would do the job.  No !!!!, it just when all dull grey and I had to start again!!

  • Like 1
Posted

Thanks Lawson. I now appreciate how much work you put into your write-ups and so I appreciate them even more. Doing my own helped me and if it helps others, I'm happy to give back some of what I've been given by this community.

 

Thank you canthus. I suspected that the ultrasonic would do more harm than good.

 

I've ordered a lot of NOS crystals that include both the size below and the size above my measurement of the existing one. Hopefully they will arrive from The Netherlands by the time I've had a chance to clean, lube and reassemble the watch. Pics to follow!

  • 2 months later...
Posted

I finally had time to finish reassembly and edit some photos.

 

Mainspring, lubed and hand wound

 

c2assem01.jpg

 

 

With some advice from Anil, I got the arbor inserted

 

c2assem02.jpg

 

 

First time using the barrel closer. Worked like a charm.

 

c2assem03.jpg

 

 

The train wheels

 

c2assem04.jpg

 

 

Crown wheel, ratchet wheel and click installed

 

c2assem06.jpg

 

 

Putting the keyless works together

 

c2assem10.jpg

 

My workbench, aka my kids' homework desk

 

c2assem11.jpg

 

 

Motion works

 

c2assem12.jpg

 

 

Pallet lever installed

 

c2assem13.jpg

 

 

The balance without the cap jewel

 

c2assem14.jpg

 

 

I had quite a bit of trouble getting the proper amount of oil on the cap jewel, so I had to clean it and start over several times. I also had some trouble inverting the lubricated jewel and getting it over the balance pivot. My solution was to make a Rodico Hershey's Kiss. This gave me a stable platform to apply the oil without worrying about the jewel shooting out of my tweezers. It also made inverting the jewel and knocking it off on the balance with my tweezers a snap.

 

c2assem15b.jpg

 

 

Posted

Bottom cap jewel

 

c2assem16.jpg

 

 

Balance installed without cap jewel

 

c2assem17.jpg

 

 

That magical moment when the balance comes to life

 

c2assem19.jpg

 

 

First time on the timer

 

c2assem20.jpg

 

Picking a crystal from my NOS lot from eBay

 

c2assem21.jpg

 

 

Old crystal/new crystal

 

c2assem22.jpg

 

 

Back on the timer, after some advice from Geo and Clockboy

 

c2assem23.jpg

 

 

Much better

 

c2assem24.jpg

 

 

Hour wheel and dial washer installed

 

c2assem25.jpg

 

 

Dial back on

 

c2assem26.jpg

 

 

Hands set

 

c2assem27.jpg

 

 

Cased...sort of

 

c2assem28.jpg

 

 

Everything was going great until I tried to put the case back on. I bought a cheap overseas case press and, even with putting more pressure that I thought safe, the back wouldn't snap on. Cursing the cheap tool, I bought a ridiculously expensive Horotec press, but had the same result. I tried with and without the gasket, with and without the movement in the case and never got the back on. I think the rim of the case may be damaged, so I'm keeping a lookout for a new case on the bay. So the job is 99% done, but I still can't wear my new watch. Such is life.

Posted (edited)

Excellent post with excellent clear pics. Hershey's Kiss with Rodico is an interesting technic I will give it a try.

Edited by clockboy
Posted

I've had this case problem. I solved it by getting a small bench vice and - with the case and back fitted between the two plastic case press pieces - going gently round the edge of the combined press pieces/case parts, a bit at a time, and squeezing them in the vice. Eventually it all snapped shut with a deafening report!

 

Just a thought.

Posted

Well, done Will,

I have not used this method I get the tight one,s to shut using a cheap Chinese press and a tiny smear of grease. A watch guy told me the problem is the case back sometimes slightly twists when first opened hence the issue when re-fitting.

 

P.S. Don,t know what happened to my original reply pressed edit and the text disappeared into the thin air.

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    • I will definitely look for interference when I open it back up. You make good points.  The part that makes me wonder is the fact that it snaps around well if I do it during the day whilst I'm wear it and assume it has more 'wind' than at midnight. 
    • I doubt it is due to lack of amplitude.  My 7750 - which I haven't serviced yet because the numbers were OK (and I am still scared of chronographs!)- has no problem flipping the date with an amplitude closer to 250º On other movements I have had issues where the plate(s) that go over the calendar wheel interfere.  I did an FHF ST 96-4 last week where there are 2 tiny plates plus a larger plate that hold the calendar wheel in place and I had real problems getting the calendar wheel to snap around nicely.  Lubrication on the points of the teeth of the calendar wheel and making sure the small plates were aligned properly was the solution there.
    • Well I spoke too soon. Here's where I am now with this issue. I replaced the date jumper and all seemed to function correctly. Fully wound and only in the movement holder, no dial or hands, I let it sit untouched for two days. Both nights it advanced the date. The second night it might have been just shy of fully advanced. Seemed as though I fixed it, so I reassembled the watch. Three nights in a row the date did not advance. Once I pull the crown it does. So you might think that it's the dial interfering, but here's the weird thing. If I advance the date during the day to 11:57p and watch it get to 12:00:30a the date flips with gusto. So here's what I'm thinking and could use your council. I installed a new Swiss mainspring. I used Moebius 8217 braking grease on the barrel walls. It seems to wind quite a bit before slipping, but does slip.  I've read that the 7750 really needs Kluber p125 as a braking grease.  Do you think it just doesn't have enough power after a few to several hours of sitting before the date change? Here are the TG numbers after service:  Rate +1s/d,    Amp 301,    BE 0.0ms   
    • I've managed with the ones I have but 1.8 mm would be better. 
    • Parts weren’t readily interchangeable when this watch was made, and almost every part was adjusted by hand to fit the rest of the parts in that specific watch. That said, it can save time to harvest a part from a donor movement so you can modify it to fit a similar movement, rather than try to make the part from scratch.  With that in mind, it is possible that the click from this watch was removed for use in another watch. I doubt that the other missing parts were taken for use as donor parts. The cannon pinion would be removed properly, rather than snapping it off with the centre wheel arbour and pin inside it.  The Maltese cross stop works were probably removed by a lazy or less knowledgeable watchmaker servicing the watch.  It is very common to encounter otherwise functional watches (including very high end pieces) that are missing their stop work because a previous watchmaker didn’t know how to set it up when reassembling the movement, or was too lazy to bother and knew that the customer would probably never notice.  It is possible that the stop work parts were taken to be fitted to a watch that was missing them.  Best Regards, Mark
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