FHF 150 ???

[PaulnKC]

All,

 

I have acquired what I believe to be a WW II era wristwatch.

It was "made" (offered?) by Mulco. The movement is an FHF 150 (with sweep wheel/center seconds). The case is from "ID" (which is why I believe it to be WW II era).

Here is the face - still cased...

 

Here is the inside of the case back...

 

The dial side uncased...

 

And the back (uncased)...

 

I am not familiar with this movement at all. It's the first time I have seen an FHF. It's also the first time that I have seen (in person) a movement with a sweep wheel.

 

I have ordered the Bergeon/Presto puller for odd number spokes. I assume there is isn't anything too strange with these old center-second movements other than the sweep wheel (removal and replacement).

 

But would appreciate any info, cautions, warnings etc. that I might need if attempting to service myself. It's not a family heirloom or anything, but I don't want to kill a vintage movement.

 

Also curious about watch itself if anyone knows anything about the original Mulco company and it's watches.

 

Kind Regards,

-Paul

 

Edited January 6, 2020 by PaulnKC

[watchweasol]

Hi Center sweeps are very little in the way of difference only having a hollow center wheel arbour through which the sweep pinion operates the basics are the same, be careful of the fine pinion end the sweep hand fits on to as it is easily bent or broken with rough handling, otherwise proceed as normal and photo graph each stage of disassembly so as to have a visible record of where everything went.  I have attached the FHF 72 and 79 tech sheets both with center sweeps to aid you , hope you find them useful

980_FHF72.pdf FHF74.pdf

[Nucejoe]

Hi Paul,  

DO NOT remove the wheel that indirectly drives center seconds arbour/pinion.

Good luck.

 

 

[rogart63]

FHF 150 is a common movement . So that is no problem if you break anything. Or need parts . What i think is rare is the extra wheel and parts for the center sweep second. So be careful with that. Need to pull straight up to remove that wheel. Problem with the presto puller is that is large . And be careful when you open the lower incabloc . They are rare to.  Other then that go for it and looking forward to see the serviced  watch.

Warning to !!! Radium hands and dial so be careful . 

 

[rogart63]

5 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Hi Paul,  

DO NOT remove the wheel that indirectly drives center seconds arbour/pinion.

Good luck.

 

 

Can be done . But maybe better to not remove . Could clean up good anyway . And he could oil the jewel from the backside if needed. 

[PaulnKC]

28 minutes ago, watchweasol said:

Hi Center sweeps are very little in the way of difference only having a hollow center wheel arbour through which the sweep pinion operates the basics are the same, be careful of the fine pinion end the sweep hand fits on to as it is easily bent or broken with rough handling, otherwise proceed as normal and photo graph each stage of disassembly so as to have a visible record of where everything went.  I have attached the FHF 72 and 79 tech sheets both with center sweeps to aid you , hope you find them useful

980_FHF72.pdf 2.1 MB · 0 downloads FHF74.pdf 3.33 MB · 0 downloads

Thank you sir - that's terrific!

Much appreciated.

-Paul

Edited January 6, 2020 by PaulnKC

[PaulnKC]

17 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Hi Paul,  

DO NOT remove the wheel that indirectly drives center seconds arbour/pinion.

Good luck.

 

 

So - removal of the sweep wheel isn't necessary for regular service?

I can just remove the train-wheel bridge? Seems like that might pose it's own hazards? But I'm not sure what will be attached.?.?

Thanks.

-Paul

[clockboy]

Looking at the inside of the case back it looks like previous services have been recorded which was very common practice by horologists. 

[PaulnKC]

19 minutes ago, rogart63 said:

Can be done . But maybe better to not remove . Could clean up good anyway . And he could oil the jewel from the backside if needed. 

Any special care to take - when not removing the sweep wheel?

Thanks!

-Paul

[Nucejoe]

Extra care not to damage the jewel beneath the wheel, handle as if a balance wheel, in ultrasonic or brushing. 

If removed / reinstalled the wheel usually tend to fall off in a couple of months or wobble which developes an old culprit, stops at low wind. 

Also I check ( before strip down) if balance is well in beat. If balance complete is previously repaired, excessive beat error seems inevitable. ( Generally so with fixed stud holder) .

Good luck.

 

[yankeedog]

ID watch cases are pretty  common  as well. I have seen them on several  makes.pretty sturdy but not very pretty. 

Edited January 9, 2020 by yankeedog

[nickelsilver]

I would say do remove the sweep wheel, especially since you have the puller. Just be careful, also when reinstalling. I've never had one come loose, neither on chronographs.

[PaulnKC]

On 1/6/2020 at 1:38 PM, clockboy said:

Looking at the inside of the case back it looks like previous services have been recorded which was very common practice by horologists. 

Yes - appears to have seen quite a few watchmakers over the years.

And - after stripping, I am happy to say that there was clean (fluid) oil where there was supposed to be - and almost no oil where there wasn't supposed be.

Having said that - it didn't look very good on the timegrapher before I started. So, will have to see what all I find as I clean and inspect things.

The cap jewel on the dial side has a divot in it. So, should be replaced. Not sure how easy it will be to ID and acquire, but rogart63 indicated that it's a very common movement and not a problem to get parts.

I haven't looked at the other hole and cap jewels (on the balance cock) - as I haven't gotten to cleaning that yet.

Here is the base plate cleaned up. It looks pretty good and all of the jewels on it look great.

Many thanks to all for their comments and contributions.

-Paul

[PaulnKC]

4 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

I would say do remove the sweep wheel, especially since you have the puller. Just be careful, also when reinstalling. I've never had one come loose, neither on chronographs.

Thanks nickelsiver.

I have the puller on order - it's actually out for delivery now. So, I should have it when I get home.

I decided to go ahead and strip without pulling - since it was possible (and according to some advisable).

I figured I could get started on the cleaning and have a look at the puller when I have it in hand. If I feel good about being able to use it without fouling anything up - then I will. If it seems too large and awkward to use - then I'll leave the sweep wheel in place.

Note: I do have a staking set to reinstall the wheel pushing straight down. I presume that would be the preferred method?

-Paul

[nickelsilver]

1 hour ago, PaulnKC said:

Note: I do have a staking set to reinstall the wheel pushing straight down. I presume that would be the preferred method?

-Paul

If you do take off the wheel, do it with the bridge/wheel installed on the mainplate. It will be much more stable and safe. You can press the wheel back on "freehand", but yes, the preferred method would be in a staking tool. They don't need that much force at all, but it keeps everything straight.

[PaulnKC]

1 minute ago, nickelsilver said:

If you do take off the wheel, do it with the bridge/wheel installed on the mainplate. It will be much more stable and safe. You can press the wheel back on "freehand", but yes, the preferred method would be in a staking tool. They don't need that much force at all, but it keeps everything straight.

Yeah, I was planning to reinstall the train-wheel bridge before pulling - for just those reasons.

Thank you sir!

[PaulnKC]

16 hours ago, yankeedog said:

ID watch cases are pretty  common  as well. I have seen them on several  makes.pretty sturdy but not very pretty. 

Any thoughts on case material?

The seller listed it as sterling silver. Which I believe was an honest mistake. It might be sterling, but I find no hallmarks. I am more inclined to believe aluminum or maybe coin silver.

-Paul

[PaulnKC]

19 hours ago, PaulnKC said:

Yeah, I was planning to reinstall the train-wheel bridge before pulling - for just those reasons.

Thank you sir!

Puller did arrive yesterday - and after looking it over decided to pull the wheel.

It worked beautifully. No problems at all.

Here is the puller for odd number of spokes...

 

Here you can see the "pushers" are brass. Not nylon as they are for cannon pinion or hand pullers. So, all small enough to work with easily. There are still nylon blocks - but the pushers are captured under them and extend out further.

So, will have unobstructed access to everything for cleaning.

 

-P.

[yankeedog]

22 hours ago, PaulnKC said:

Any thoughts on case material?

The seller listed it as sterling silver. Which I believe was an honest mistake. It might be sterling, but I find no hallmarks. I am more inclined to believe aluminum or maybe coin silver.

-Paul

Unknown. It may have some silver content, I have never tried to polish one. I expect a polishing is in order ! wear marks might reveal whether is is solid or plated

[PaulnKC]

12 minutes ago, yankeedog said:

Unknown. It may have some silver content, I have never tried to polish one. I expect a polishing is in order ! wear marks might reveal whether is is solid or plated

It's not plated - that much I am sure of. Whatever it is, it's solid.

Doesn't seem to be lustrous enough to be silver (of any sort). But I wouldn't expect aluminum to be used for this either. However, that my best guess - just looking at it.

-P.

[PaulnKC]

34 minutes ago, PaulnKC said:

It's not plated - that much I am sure of. Whatever it is, it's solid.

Doesn't seem to be lustrous enough to be silver (of any sort). But I wouldn't expect aluminum to be used for this either. However, that my best guess - just looking at it.

-P.

The crown is obviously plated - but not the case ( and case back is stainless as shown in the pics).

[yankeedog]

Aluminum? If it were it would be very light.it also does not have the  look of aluminum..and due to it numerous  nicks and dings it is obviously  too soft to be stainless.it has the look of plated brass. But since you say it is not..it can only be a nonferrous  mystery  metal  or alloy of zinc  such as zamak. 

[PaulnKC]

While not ideal - I am pretty pleased with the results of just cleaning.

It should have both end-stones replaced - as both have divots in them. And should have a new mainspring.

Here is the original timegrapher trace...

It couldn't decipher much from the sounds it was getting.

 

Here is the trace now...

 

Again, not ideal - but compared to where it started - and with the known parts issues - I am pretty happy with it.

 

Dial side after reassembly (before dial and case)...

 

Reverse...

 

And cased...

 

I did polish out the crystal a bit - and cleaned up the case - but didn't want to polish (the case) given the appearance of the hands. Too much age showing there for a polished case.

 

I'll replace the mainspring and end-stones if I can figure out what parts I need and find them available for reasonable money. If not, it's still in operating condition. Can be wound, worn, and appreciated.

 

Thanks to all for comments - any suggestions on the end-stones and mainspring would be greatly appreciated.

-Paul

[Nucejoe]

Give OD for the end stones.

Also have  fhf 70 mainsprings which I think would work.

 

 

[PaulnKC]

27 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Give OD for the end stones.

Also have  fhf 70 mainsprings which I think would work.

 

 

Thanks Nucejoe!

I found the mainspring at Cousins (UK). Using the Watchguy blog mainspring reference - the mainspring is 1.80 x 0.10 x 320 mm x 9.0 (dia). That's General Resources ref # 5254 [the movement is a 150-1].

Also ordered large assortment of hole jewels and end-stones (1000). So, should find something in there to work.

-P.