Watch 'glass' replacement question - West End Watches

[Aidy189]

Hello all, 

Hope everyone is ok. 

I am lucky to receive my grandfathers 'West End Watch Co - Matchless' watch that my father tells me he bought whilst in India during the second world war. Its a sentimental piece and i want to get it up and running and return it as a gift for my dad. 

The bit i am having difficulty, (at the moment, there will be more i'm sure!) is the 'glass'. I say glass as i believe this is acrylic. 

I have removed this and taken photos for inspection. It appears the recess in the case looks about 1mm deep and measures 27.8mm. I have had a look on cousins website and the variety is so vast that its leaving me more confused the more i study it. 

Has anyone any advice they can offer me, it will be greatly appreciated. 

 

Hope everyone is keeping safe and well. 

 

Aidy. 

 

[watchweasol]

Hi There is a very good tutorial regarding watch glasses and the fitting there of on Esslingers web site in the USA, It mat help clear up some points for you.

[Marc]

It looks to me like the original is mineral glass rather than acrylic. How easy was it to remove?

[Aidy189]

Thank you,

It was very easy on my glass press. 

 

[Marc]

23 minutes ago, Aidy189 said:

Thank you,

It was very easy on my glass press. 

That suggests that it may have been too small in the first place. 

What I would do is measure the diameter of the aperture that the glass has to pass through. You need a crystal slightly larger so that it doesn't just drop in. To fit it you need to heat up the bezel so that it expands then drop the crystal in before it cools. As it cools it will then contract gripping the new crystal in place.

 

[Aidy189]

 

1 hour ago, watchweasol said:

Hi There is a very good tutorial regarding watch glasses and the fitting there of on Esslingers web site in the USA, It mat help clear up some points for you.

Thank you!

 

9 minutes ago, Marc said:

That suggests that it may have been too small in the first place. 

What I would do is measure the diameter of the aperture that the glass has to pass through. You need a crystal slightly larger so that it doesn't just drop in. To fit it you need to heat up the bezel so that it expands then drop the crystal in before it cools. As it cools it will then contract gripping the new crystal in place.

 

I see, makes perfect sense. Thank you

[Nucejoe]

Hard to find replacement for. Polished it will look as good as new, a glass seal works fine on it, which if you couldn’t  find ,  It is down to glue.
West end uses a seal on flat scratch resistant glass. 

.

[watchweasol]

As Nucejoe said,  There is always the possibility of using Glue, Stenkruz supply a U.V cured glue which is cured by ultraviolet light or sunlight.  I have used this myself and had no problems with it.

[transporter]

 being a vintage crystal I fear you wont find one in cousins, nor sternkreuz, I might be wrong  as I haven't looked, but as for the movement and case etc once finished it will look gorgeous. For the dial I use denture cleaning tablets in a glass of water, they manage to clean the dirt out of the hairline  cracks quiet well, sometimes they don't though. 

[rodabod]

I think it may be tricky to source a glass of that thickness. It would be easier to fit an acrylic crystal instead, but perhaps you want it to look as per original. 
 

I own four or five of this particular model and each were purchased in India. Can you tell me if the watch has “CS(I)” stamped on either the case back or dust cover? Thanks. 

[JohnD]

A 27.8mm x 3mm thick crystal can be obtained HERE....

They even do 3.5 and 4mm thick ones......

Edited April 12, 2020 by JohnD

[Aidy189]

Thank you all for the suggestions, i've really found them helpful. 

So an update:

I ordered a Sternkreuz 28mm 'glass', as well a 3 more of different sizes as they where all a few .2 of a mill off, loaded the 28 into the press and after a healthy click sound and a heartbeat flutter it was in! 

The watch has now been stripped, cleaned, oiled and put back together, BUT,

The second hand was giving me problems not sitting into the jewel location (second wheel pin is it?). I tried a few times but feel i might have damaged it as on closer inspection the very end 'pin' section now looks a great deal shorter than it used to. I'm guessing that pushes in to the center of the corresponding wheel on the gear train? (Still learning this hobby).

Can i order a new second hand or do you think i might have caused damage to the corresponding gear pin? 

There wasn't a great deal of room when this was originally seated, created by a a dial that only has one dial screw that holds on side of the dial in tight, and the other having a corroded screw that doesn't remove yet doesn't grip the dial too well, this leave the dial slightly proud of the movement which ultimately reduces the clearance on this accessory dial (Second hand) in this case. 

 

Bit stumped now as what to do. Somewhat disheartened as the watch runs really well and looks vastly improved and keeping to my original goal. But, without a second hand it looks, well odd. 

 

Any advice would be appreciated. Thank you once again for taking the time to read my comments, 

 

Stay safe, 

 

 

 

[Aidy189]

On 4/11/2020 at 11:51 PM, rodabod said:

I think it may be tricky to source a glass of that thickness. It would be easier to fit an acrylic crystal instead, but perhaps you want it to look as per original. 
 

I own four or five of this particular model and each were purchased in India. Can you tell me if the watch has “CS(I)” stamped on either the case back or dust cover? Thanks. 

Yes it does, then on the outer case back the numbers 6657 785. 

 

[rodabod]

6 hours ago, Aidy189 said:

Yes it does, then on the outer case back the numbers 6657 785. 

 

Fantastic. Despite what has been claimed I’ve the years, CS(I) denotes Canteen Stores India. Was your grandfather in the Army or RAF?

[rodabod]

From what you are describing regarding the fitting of the sub-seconds hand, I’m wondering if you have snapped the pivot off the 4th wheel. 
 

Just for clarity, the 4th wheel is the 4th in the train if you start counting from the mainspring barrel. It has an extended length pivot to carry a seconds hand. 
 

Is it now the case that when you look into the dial hole, there is barely any length of pivot left to secure the seconds hand to?

[Aidy189]

10 hours ago, rodabod said:

From what you are describing regarding the fitting of the sub-seconds hand, I’m wondering if you have snapped the pivot off the 4th wheel. 
 

Just for clarity, the 4th wheel is the 4th in the train if you start counting from the mainspring barrel. It has an extended length pivot to carry a seconds hand. 
 

Is it now the case that when you look into the dial hole, there is barely any length of pivot left to secure the seconds hand to?

My fear is your correct, I haven't stripped it back down to inspect the 4th Wheel but all evidence leads to this. Assuming this is the case, is there anything that can be done? 

I'm guessing replacement 4th wheels are not generic and specific to the movement, a brief search on cousins doesn't result in much luck. 

[Aidy189]

10 hours ago, rodabod said:

Fantastic. Despite what has been claimed I’ve the years, CS(I) denotes Canteen Stores India. Was your grandfather in the Army or RAF?

That's great, he was in the RAF, around 40-41 it was. There Squadron was invaded and moved back to India i believe. He was in the 63rd squadron.

[rodabod]

4 hours ago, Aidy189 said:

That's great, he was in the RAF, around 40-41 it was. There Squadron was invaded and moved back to India i believe. He was in the 63rd squadron.

That is fantastic. Really interesting. I will try to show you a photo of my collection.  

[rodabod]

4 hours ago, Aidy189 said:

My fear is your correct, I haven't stripped it back down to inspect the 4th Wheel but all evidence leads to this. Assuming this is the case, is there anything that can be done? 

I'm guessing replacement 4th wheels are not generic and specific to the movement, a brief search on cousins doesn't result in much luck. 

So, you may find that the subseconds hand’s pipe contains the remnants of that pivot if it remained attached. 
 

What we need to do is identify the movement and find a spare. Shouldn’t be too difficult. Since this is an heirloom, if you can’t find a spare wheel then I will give you one of mine. But let’s try to find a spare first. 
 

Could you possibly post a “can you identify this movement please?” thread and see if anyone recognises the model? It will be one of the main Swiss manufacturers of the time like FE, FHF, AS, etc. 

[Aidy189]

2 hours ago, rodabod said:

So, you may find that the subseconds hand’s pipe contains the remnants of that pivot if it remained attached. 
 

What we need to do is identify the movement and find a spare. Shouldn’t be too difficult. Since this is an heirloom, if you can’t find a spare wheel then I will give you one of mine. But let’s try to find a spare first. 
 

Could you possibly post a “can you identify this movement please?” thread and see if anyone recognises the model? It will be one of the main Swiss manufacturers of the time like FE, FHF, AS, etc. 

That is extremely kind of you and thank you for your reply. 

Yes no problem. I will get onto that right away. 

 

 

[Aidy189]

2 hours ago, rodabod said:

That is fantastic. Really interesting. I will try to show you a photo of my collection.  

Apologies, it was 60 Squadron. My dad just sent me this!

 

 

[rodabod]

Fantastic. I’ve replied to your other thread by the way.... pretty sure it’s a Vertex. And I may be able to spare you a wheel. 
 

Can you ask your Dad if he remembers if your Grand mad purchased the watch, or was issued it by the forces? My understanding is that they were private purchases. 

[rodabod]

I will bring a vertex cal 59 into work and try to post it to you. Could you private message your address to me?

[Aidy189]

So, an update to my repair. 

This watch has taught me a great deal about watch repair. In some respects, working on earlier movements has given me more of an understanding of the mechanics of a manual wind watch. The movements based on simplicity, without getting too complicated, and what a joy it was to do. 

In the end it was taken apart 3 or 4 times to overcome hurdles, aligning the bridge above the gear train to get them sitting perfectly in the jewels was quite an experience, thinking i've cracked it then then it would stop, only to find the hour and min hand colliding, then getting the click spring to catch perfectly through a plastic bag as i have a habit of making watch parts fly around my room. 

My biggest mistake was removing the front cap, slipping and colliding with the second hand which sheared off the top of the 4th wheel pin in which the second hand sits upon. A massive thank you to Rodabod who kindly sent me a matching Cal 59 movement the day after posting on this forum, which allowed me to replace the 4th wheel, then rebuild with the second hand now sitting correctly on the pin. 

And it works!

 

I have it on my wrist and feel immensely proud. I am doing a shop for my dad this week and he doesn't know i've fixed it yet, i can't wait to see his face. 

 

Thank you to everyone who has given advice and helped me out on this post, I've learned a great deal from this and the watch bug has fully hit me. Once again, Rodabod, thank you. 

 

Keep safe all, 

Adrian

 

 

[rodabod]

Love it! And well done for jumping in at the deep end. It’s a great watch with a very interesting history.