I Give Up, For Now

[Gotwatch]

Like the title says. I decided to get my first wrist watch, a Timex, silly small ww, that my parents gave me on my 8th birthday to learn telling time running again. It hasn't run for years with no opening of the "movement" (I use that term loosely).

 

I shouldn't have separated the plates. :growl:

 

The works are all carried by the top plate, ALL the parts. The wheels, barrel, pallet, escape, the keyless and the balance. To make matters worse, the hair spring/balance are attached to the top plate i.e. that plate becomes the balance cock.

 

Needless to say, trying to hold and manipulate all these parts into position has turned into an exercise in frustration.

 

I'm tempted to pack the works with Rodico, release the connection of the hair spring to the plate and assemble then removing the Rodico and reattaching the hair.

 

It's been put up for now and moving on to a Waltham tank I have to restore.

 

Thanks for listening to my rant and I expect some of you will relate to the frustrations of the most simple of tasks. Who would know such a cheap, unimpressive watch could prove such madness.

 

On ward and upward. :rolleyes:

[autowind]

I believe that Timex watches were never designed to be serviced,  being of a throwaway nature.  Probably the simplest way,  although a bit late in your case,  is to remove the hands and dial and put the complete movement in cleaning fluid of your choice.  The difficult part is oiling the balance wheel pivots without removing the balance (unless you are very brave).

[WillFly]

Autowind has it in one - Timex were throwaway watches and never really meant to be serviced. Sorry to hear of your travails!

 

Better to buy a cheap, conventional movement for a few pence from eBay and have a crack at that.

[clockboy]

I sympathise I have never had much luck with the Timex. I could never get the plates apart as the ones I have had the plates are held together with what looks like a very small Alan key & I never found one the correct size. I did read somewhere to put them back together turn them upside down.

[Lawson]

Don't loose heart mate.  You couldn't have picked a trickery movement for your first, even if you'd planed it :p

 

Grab a nice ST96 movement, and start there my friend.

[Michael]

Hi Gotwatch, you are not alone with your frustration. Just spend 2 evenings on a watch and final job was to put back in the balance assembly, which self imploded into a spiders web. In trying to recover the mess I broke a pivot. some days you win and some days you lose. Good luck with the Waltham

[Marc]

I have to disagree with the idea that Timex watches were never meant to be serviced.

 

In fact Timex published servicing manuals (including lubrication requirements) for many, if not all of their calibres (see here for downloads:

 

http://timex.digidep.net/manuals/

 

They also supplied many service parts/spares including complete balance and hairspring assemblies, individual wheels, stems, pin pallets, main springs, etc; I know this because I have a number of NOS Timex spares and "service kits" in my stock, picked up from estate sales of watchmakers working in the 60's through to the 80's. So very much not designed to be thrown away.

 

What is true is that the standard Timex servicing procedures were kept simple, with as little disassembly as possible. It was usually necessary to remove the balance and hairspring assembly from the movement to be cleaned separately, but this was normally possible without separating the plates, and the rest of the movement went into the cleaner without dismantling it.

 

Lubrication was also kept simple. The mainsprings had a factory applied dry lubricant that was not affected by cleaning solutions so no need to worry about oiling it. Pivots generally required only one grade of oil throughout the watch, including the "V-Conic" balance pivots which are amazingly robust, and I believe the only other lubrication specified was a grease for things like the keyless works.

 

I have an enormous admiration for Timex movements because despite being incredibly cheaply made, they seem to be almost indestructible. The number of examples I have picked up for pennies, which have not been serviced in 50 years or more (since they left the factory), have been generally abused (dents and dings in the cases that testify to a whack that would have instantly destroyed any standard non-shock protected jewelled movement, and a fair few of the shock resistant ones too), and they still run, albeit a bit sluggishly before a service......

And then 15 minutes of taking apart, a good thorough cleaning cycle through the Elma, and back together with a drop of oil, and they're running like new. There are not many marvels of Swiss engineering at 10 or 100 times the price that can do that. And they keep quite acceptable time into the bargain. I think their only real weak spot was the rotor bearings on the automatics as these are often worn to rattling, but they do usually still work.

 

Next time you get a Timex, don't treat it like other watches. Just take off the hands and dial, and the balance, then clean the rest as a unit. Keep it really simple because that's the way they were designed to serviced.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Marc

[jnash]

just put the watch away and go back to it a later stage, work on something else.  thats the best advice i got and have a habit of NOT sticking to it...  leave it and your get it next time!

[clockboy]

Marc, Thanks for these very useful downloads.

However the Timex,s I have had I could not find a way of removing the balances without the risk of damaging the balance staff. Next time I come across one will have another look & see.

Edited February 10, 2015 by clockboy

[bobm12]

Thanks Marc for the useful link!

[Gotwatch]

Thank you all for your sympathy and advice and allowing me to vent steam here.

 

Clockboy, I like your advice re reassemble upside down. I'll try that.

 

Marc, thank you for the thoughtful and thorough post. I bookmarked that Timex page for later.

 

Just to clarify, this is not my first repair and this is not practice, except in patience. LOL

 

The watch is sentimental being my childhood watch of some 50+ years ago and yes, otherwise would be a throw away but...

 

If I ever get it back together, it'll get a good dunk in the ultrasonic as a whole. I like that!

 

Yes, I have put it up for now and moved on to a Waltham and a Hamilton/Buren micro rotor both in need of a good CLA.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Gotwatch

[clockboy]

I do understand the clean as a whole unit. I have cleaned many cheap mechanical alarm clocks this way as their plates are held via bent clips attached to their plates & if the clips brake the clock is finished.

However what worries me with this method with a watch is how the mainspring can be cleaned & completely dried without it being taken out of its barrel.

[bobm12]

I join clockboy on the method vs. mainspring and also wonder how to finally lube the critical parts...or should we use a cleaner that incorporates some lubricant after effect like one of those L&R types?

[mlfloyd1]

if you think you have problems, read my post about ruining not 1 but 2 2836-2 movements.

I can now understand why golfers throw their clubs in the lake.

This profession takes time, patience, and prayer.

Edited February 11, 2015 by mlfloyd1

[Marc]

For you doubters  :unsure:, below are a couple of extracts from the Timex service manual for cals. 21, 22, 23, 26, and 29.

 

"Timex has found through long and careful research the best method of cleaning the movement is with only the forementioned parts removed (i.e. with barrel and mainspring in place). The cleaning method, while removing any contamination from the movement will also remove oil from the train holes and bearings. Since the mainspring is not capped, oil will also be removed from this area and re-oiling is required. In the case of the barrel, special holes are provided to accomplish this. For the self-wind movement, it is essential that oil be applied to the slipping tail of the mainspring to ensure correct function."

 

"The movement should be placed in the cleaning basket with the dial plate upwards to accomplish proper draining of fluid from mainspring barrel; it should be well swirled in the cleaning fluid after which at least two sets of rinsing fluid should be used, of which the final, especially, must be absolutely clean. The movement then should be thoroughly dried."

 

So any contamination drains out of the m/s barrel with the cleaning fluid. 

The final rinse (usually some form of light petroleum distillate) will evaporate within minutes, especially if you use a heated dryer, leaving the whole movement, including the main spring and barrel, clean and dry.

 

Further on in the manual the process of oiling everything in situ is addressed, including the slipping bridle on the mainspring in the auto's.

[clockboy]

Actually I now can,t wait for another Timex to cross my path so I can explore all these theories.

[bobm12]

 

Actually I now can,t wait for another Timex to cross my path so I can explore all these theories.

Ditto!

[anilv]

I see a rise in the values if Timex in the immediate future!!!