Omega ESA 9162 300 Hz electronic testing

[PWR]

I saw some threads but links are broken....can someone remind me how to test the coils on an Omega electronic tuning fork watch ESA 9162?

 

I seem to remember it was fairly simple with a Ohm meter.....

 

 

thanks

[JohnR725]

11 minutes ago, PWR said:

I saw some threads but links are broken

It might be helpful to know which threads you are looking at the see what was posted and now is missing?

[bobtheterrible]

Hi Guys,

Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere - on the diagram above what exactly is meant by "1: Control coil"?

If one (let's say me) were to have an open circuit between these two points, what does that mean?

Best

Bob

[praezis]

The control coil supplies the feedback signal to the transistor circuit. 
Open coil = no feedback = fork cannot vibrate.

[AndyGSi]

Are there any obvious signs of damage to the coil or connection pads?

Photos as always will help.

[bobtheterrible]

Thanks @praezis @AndyGSi! The module looks mostly fine apart from the battery tab having a kink. No obvious damage that I can see - I will get some pics under the microscope if that helps. I'm guessing if is a coil that is gone then the module is toast.

[AndyGSi]

The coil with battery tab can be replaced if that's the only fault but they aren't cheap.

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, bobtheterrible said:

if one (let's say me) were to have an open circuit between these two points, what does that mean?

So my interpretation of the question is that you level watch that doesn't run and the coil is open?

[bobtheterrible]

Hi @JohnR725, that's right. I have a non-running 9162. I have checked continuity and resistance across the points in the circuit diagram above and was reading open on 1.

I was trying to assess which part of the module this represents in case it was salvageable (i.e. bad transistor resistor etc...) if it is absolutely beyond repair I can put it in the box labled "hopless" and look at a replacement module.

[JohnR725]

Out of curiosity do you have the complete service manual?

[GuyMontag]

5 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Out of curiosity do you have the complete service manual?

I'm not the OP but was just looking at this yesterday and thought I'd ask. I've seen the one you posted before but I had been trying to find a copy of  the one below but can't seem to locate one. Is this one available as a PDF? It looks like it has really high quality images.

Edited March 10 by GuyMontag

[AndyGSi]

1 hour ago, bobtheterrible said:

Hi @JohnR725, that's right. I have a non-running 9162. I have checked continuity and resistance across the points in the circuit diagram above and was reading open on 1.

So all you know at this point is that either the coil or where it connects to the pads is damaged.

I think a closer look under the microscope would help.

Failing that it depends where your are in the world and how much you're willing to spend to attempt the repair.

[JohnR725]

33 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

connects to the pads is damaged.

One of the problems with testing watches with coils is extreme caution is required whenever the coil wire To anything else. Basically that wires super tiny and if you're not careful with the test probe in the process of testing things can get damaged.

34 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

this one available as a PDF

You know that it's on eBay and it has a cost just think what would happen if I sold all of my documentation I would be rich?

I have attached two separate manuals that particular one and another one with way more pages as it's actually a combination of a whole bunch of manuals plus at least one page that does not even belong to that watch a you also notice as references to an Omega watch because that is the same watch.

ESA 9162 Repair Manual 52 pages.pdf ESA_9162 repair manual Longines.pdf

[AndyGSi]

35 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

One of the problems with testing watches with coils is extreme caution is required whenever the coil wire To anything else. Basically that wires super tiny and if you're not careful with the test probe in the process of testing things can get damaged.

That's the good thing about these movements as the coil connections are not the same as the test pads.

[GuyMontag]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

One of the problems with testing watches with coils is extreme caution is required whenever the coil wire To anything else. Basically that wires super tiny and if you're not careful with the test probe in the process of testing things can get damaged.

You know that it's on eBay and it has a cost just think what would happen if I sold all of my documentation I would be rich?

I have attached two separate manuals that particular one and another one with way more pages as it's actually a combination of a whole bunch of manuals plus at least one page that does not even belong to that watch a you also notice as references to an Omega watch because that is the same watch.

ESA 9162 Repair Manual 52 pages.pdf 5.35 MB · 1 download ESA_9162 repair manual Longines.pdf 3.67 MB · 2 downloads

Thanks!

[bobtheterrible]

Wow, lots of comments!

@JohnR725, I have the Longines service manual - I found that most of the electrical testing documentation focused around the testing equipment - perhaps I need to read it again. Thank you for the additional manual links!

@AndyGSi, That is a good point. Right now Im making an assumption. I have a quiet eve tomorrow so will get the module under the microscope.

Im aware these modules are becoming increasingly rare and are thus expensive. For the watch itself I have a few donor movements that I have picked up and will see if any of the modules from these will do. I don't like throwing things away and if there is a possibility of a repair to the module itself then I'd like to explore that (I also understand that this is not going to be easy and/or successful).

Many thanks for everyone's input.

[AndyGSi]

I found in the past that it tended to be either the coil or transistor that failed and not both together so would transfer transistors to good coils.

[JohnR725]

8 hours ago, bobtheterrible said:

I found that most of the electrical testing documentation focused around the testing equipment

The electrical testing is most part pretty simple achieving it is not always simple. Most modern digital volt meters will work fine for measuring voltage and resistance. Then you need some way of measuring current and even in this nifty digital age I still prefer an analog meter. Which presents challenges as analog meters are going away Especially finding one that will measure microamps. Then ideally need a variable voltage power supply. Then I can't remember why but the witschi machine we have At work for quartz watches basically refused to acknowledge the existence of the tuning fork watch I connected up to it. So much for modern technology. 

 

[bobtheterrible]

OK, some pics from under the microscope. It all looks OK, so I'm guessing there is a break somewhere in the coil. I hadn't realised up until this point that the transistor pins are reasonably accessible - maybe when I'm feeling brave I will attempt to desolder it.

@JohnR725 it's interesting what you mention about equipment. I'm using consumer grade multimeters. My okish digital multimeter gives no resistance reading while my super cheap analogue multimeter at least shows something.

[JohnR725]

23 minutes ago, bobtheterrible said:

I'm using consumer grade multimeters. My okish digital multimeter gives no resistance reading while my super cheap analogue multimeter at least shows something.

Typically for watch repair I was always using a purchased an extremely long time ago $20 digital volt meter.

Technically if you're going get nitpicky about thing is if there is a semi conductor involved then the voltage out of the meter for measuring resistance has to be low enough not the cause the transistor and/or semi conductor to turn on which would give you false readings.

Then the reason for current measurement I like an analog meter is I find it easier to see trends. Versus numbers that can be fluctuating and you may be not quite sure where exactly they're going.

At one time although they come up on eBay both citizen and Seiko sold an inexpensive analog meter with a really nice low current range of 12 µA. Citizen soul that is part of a basically a kit which I'm attaching a article on. So I didn't worry about the bottom part I just like the meter which I still use to this day and mine says Seiko which is basically rebranded from somebody else.

Is like Bulova made their meter test set for doing the tuning fork watches and it has a really nice big analog meter but as I might have mentioned before trying to find those anymore is nearly impossible which is why everyone's gone to digital. Then depending upon whether it's analog or digital you need a slightly different circuitry to smooth out the readings. Analog meter is quite simply is need a large capacitor and I don't quite remember what the digital meter needed.

 

Citizen-Meter-CMT3002 quartz watch tester and power supply.pdf

[AndyGSi]

This could be your problem here and the transistor solder is shot.

Edited March 11 by AndyGSi

[bobtheterrible]

Thanks @AndyGSi I had seen the "scratch" but could not see an obvious break - I could perhaps attempt some conductive paint?

As for the solder joints - now you point it out, I see the dry joint in the middle. If this were the only problem would fluxing and touching with an iron reform the joints?

[AndyGSi]

Conductive paint would just short everything broken together so don't think it would work.

Yes a drop of flux and fresh solder on the iron and it should reflow OK but you need to be careful with the temperature so not to melt the plastic.