Buren 1321/hamilton 630 Movement Info

[Gotwatch]

Hello all,

I'm in the process of repairing this movement and was wondering if anyone knew of a source of an exploded view of the movement and/or parts sources. Specifically, there is an issue with the setting train and I'm trying to understand its operation as well as I discovered a split intermediary gear.

Thanks,
Stu

[Geo]

Check this out Stu, it might help.

http://www.watchrepairtalk.com/page/index.html/_/watch-movement-stripdowns/buren-cal1321-with-the-micro-rotor-in-a-hamilton-r20

[Gotwatch]

Thanks you, Geo. I have seen that and it was a help with a spring that was dislodged under date wheel. Unfortunatly it doesn't address the setting train issue I have. I have searched all over the net including Cousins database but can't locate any info. I was hopeing maybe somewhere I hadn't stumbled upon would be known.

 

I suppose I could find a parts movement on fleabay but as a last resort.

[Marc]

Hi Stu,

 

I have also been on the look out for tech sheets for this family of movements for a Hamilton cal. 92 that I'm working on. Turns out it's a Buren cal. 1281 by another name.

There really doesn't seem to be very much out there on these but below is what I did manage to find before I stopped looking. Hope it helps.

 

 

 

 

 

Marc

[Geo]

Thanks for posting this Marc, I have two watches with these movements waiting to be serviced, so this will come in handy. :)

[Marc]

No problem Geo.

 

I probably won't get around to doing mine for a week or two (or three...) but when I do I will post up how I get along. It will be interesting to compare notes when you do yours.

 

Stu, if you could post any pics of your progress it could be a great help.

[MortenS]

The Büren micro-rotor movements have a lot of history. Heuer made one of the first modular chronograph construction. That was a Büren micro-rotor movement with a chronograph module made by Dubois-Depraz. The tech sheets above is from Heuer calibre 11. :)

 

Büren  cal 13xx

 

Morten

[Marc]

This might also be of interest;

 

http://people.timezone.com/library/archives/archives631988314105468750

[Gotwatch]

Marc! Perfect! I do think that's it. The gear that is split it #453 in the first drawing. Gear #450 is actually a stack of two gears, one slipping over the shaft of the lower one. When the crown is in the set position, the lower gear just turns inside the top gear but does not transmit anyaction/force to the rest of the gears. That is what confuses me.

 

My research turned up my Hamilton 630 is the same as a Buren ca. 1321. I believe the ca. 1281 is the same as the ca. 1280 but has the date function. The ca. 1321 may be the same as the ca. 1380 (if there is a 1380) with a date function? Maybe the only difference between 1200 and 1300 families is ligne sizes?

 

I fear that the only parts available will have to come from a parts movement.

 

This forum is great! You crew come up with all the info! Thank you so very much.

 

Stu

[Gotwatch]

Morten, I do think that's it exactly. Thank you very much! Part numbers are different than Marc's but again, that may be due to ligne size. If I'm seeing this correctly, 424 is the cracked gear and 417 slips over 410 and just spins freely. I still don't understand this concept.

 

Marc, I have read that article, very interesting indeed. I'll also post some pics when I spread it out.

 

Thank you all!

 

Stu

[HorologicalHobby]

I just rebuilt an older variant of this movement, and couldn't decide how to oil the reversing wheel for the micro-rotor. In the image it is part labeled 1500. My movement only had one large flat jewel, as the second jewel was replaced by a steel disk. I ended up using some 9010, as I was concerned with the steel on steel (free floating) gear wearing. Was that the correct call? The system is working flawlessly as of now.

[Marc]

Good luck on the donor movement Stu. They do turn up but tend to hold their prices rather well.

 

I got my Hamilton for a pittance as a box of bits that someone else had taken apart and couldn't get back together again.

Having not taken it apart myself and never seen one of these before my first challenge was to try and work out how it went back together again, which took a while, only to find out that bits had been damaged beyond repair, so the search began for a donor at a reasonable price. That was 4 years ago! I finally managed to bag one last month for a reasonable price so once my bench is clear of the current jobs I can crack on.

 

Hi Ppoage, welcome to the mad house forum  :D

Your lubrication question/solution is something that I have been thinking about prior to rebuilding my Hamilton. It's an uncommon arrangement and I was even wondering if it should be left dry because the viscosity of any oil may cause the sliding wheel to stick to the jewel due to the comparatively large flat contact plane. If 9010 has worked for you I might give that a try.

If you have any pictures then please post.

 

Marc

[HorologicalHobby]

Thanks! Love reading everything here!

I used a very minimal amount, say half of what you would place on a cap jewel, and have had no issues with it sticking, but my movement is older, so if you have a flat jewel on each side I would skip oil, as it won't wear. Also be careful of the click spring for the automatic ratchet, it is about half as thin as a hair.

Mine is currently cased up, but I can gladly explain which part does what if given a picture of your movement.

A couple things to note, (these applied to my movement, but not necessarily yours) the mainspring has two ratchets, one hidden under the ratchet wheel, and cannot be let out. To remove the power, safely (not all at once by unscrewing the ratchet wheel), you must apply firm pressure to the end of the second hand pivot, and carefully unscrew and remove the pallet fork, then slowly let the mainspring down by releasing the seconds hand pivot. (On the back/calendar side of the watch).

In addition, the quick set is a bit tricky to get working, you have to hold it in position with a pin while you put the calendar plate on, but its not that bad.

All this shouldn't scare you away, I serviced it and I can't do a chronograph yet. I'll try and take some pictures when i regulate the watch!

[Geo]

A warm welcome to the forum ppoage! I'm well impressed, two posts into the forum and a bundle of useful information already. I look forward to reading more in the future.

Cheers, Geo!

PS. I don't know if you should be calling Marc "Love", you hardly know the man. ;)

[clockboy]

Welcome ppoage to this forum. Your posts are already useful. This forum has a wealth of info for both tinkerers & pro,s alike & the greater the membership the greater the resource.

Enjoy.

[WillFly]

These micro-rotor movements are sweet. Pic of mine - in a Hamilton Intra-Matic -  here:

 

http://www.willswatchpages.com/buren-1281.html

 

They're beautiful to look at but, to my mind, the mini-rotor doesn't wind as efficiently as a full-size equivalent. There are often several of these on the Auction pages of the Ranfft site - which is where I got mine from.

[Gotwatch]

Per Marc's request, a picture:

 

Yellow goes on post purple and meshes with stem clutch, orange. Red stacks on top of yellow and should drive blue but spins free. Blue goes on post green, (this is the cracked gear).

 

This is what puzzles me. There is no transfer of force between yellow and red and I can not see that a part is missing. Maybe some sort of spring washer? Can't see it in the part lists.

 

I hope that is clear and someone can explain the relation to these parts. This doesn't seem that complex but I must be missing something!

 

Best,

Stu

[Gotwatch]

ppoage,

 

Thanks for your input, that will prove helpful assuming I can get that setting working.

 

And a hardy welcome to this great venue.

 

Best,

Stu

[HorologicalHobby]

That movement had a different setting system than my own, mine had a small intermediate wheel.

That said, maybe yellow stacks on the green post above blue and is screwed down? Or it has a plate above it (such as calendar plate) that applies pressure?

Thanks for all the warm welcomes!

-Patrick

[Gotwatch]

Hi Patrick,

 

On your suggestion, I tried that. It made sense as the split gear (maybe meant to be split) might supply the spring tension desired. It was a tight fit and required a pegwood to push it over the yellow gear and the gears meshed but the gear just re-sized itself to the new inside diminsion. No joy.

 

Oddly enough, I found that another movement I have, a Hamilton cal. 95 matches the architecture of the 630. Difference being, 630 is 17j, and 95 is 30j but appears that jewels were added where not necessary to add to count. I haven't checked the ligne size yet. Just details I hope. The 95 is running to time so I will have to take care.

 

Too late tonight but tomorrow I plan to pull hands, face, and calendar works on the 95 to see what may be different/wrong.

 

We'll see, stay tuned...

Edited March 11, 2015 by Gotwatch

[HorologicalHobby]

I wonder if its a result of the cracked gear, if it wasn't cracked, maybe the fit would be snug and power would be transferred. Maybe put a little epoxy in the crack and vise it nice and tight, then remove excess epoxy?

[Gotwatch]

Correction. Sorry, can't edit post. Yellow on purple, blue (split) on yellow and red on green. That's what I meant. Yellow has to go on purple to mesh with clutch gear, orange.

 

There is a plate that covers all but does not supply any pressure.

[Gotwatch]

No, epoxy won't work for two reasons. One, stress to force it on would break bond and two, there is some rust/tarnish in crack that could never be cleaned for a good bond which is moot anyway.

[HorologicalHobby]

Then I'm stumped, don't know if any one else can chime in with some experience. Maybe you can source a spare for parts movement? They are quite expensive though...

[clockboy]

Looking at a drawing on google images it looks like to me that purple on yellow post with red on top. The blue on the green post. Then they should then all mesh.

However the broken wheel must be replaced you will have find another movement or part probably on eBay.

Edited March 11, 2015 by clockboy