Tissot 19.4 - my first repair, help

[Jr86]

Hi everyone,

im very new in (trying to) repair watches. I bought an old ladies tissot 19.4, that was a bit rusty, very dirty however was kind of working (started and then stopped after a while) I thought that o could fix it and give it to my wife as a present.

I took it a part, cleaned the rusty parts with Sodium bicarbonate, clean the plates with vinagre (rusty stains) and then wash all the parts in lighter fluid and 99.9% IPA, in the ultrasonic cleaner.

everything was looking very clean and I was hoping that I would be successful. I put all the parts back, put Moebius 8000 (is the only oil that I have) and everything was working fine,all the wheels were moving. However when I put back the balance wheel, the watch didn’t run. Gave it a shake and the watch started running but right after stopped.. I have no idea what can be.. any ideas or advises?? 
 

- I didn’t touch the main spring cause I don’t have the tool to put it back. And the balance wheel and pallet wheel I just cleaned with lighter fluid.

 

any advises, to make it run ? Thank you 

[jdm]

46 minutes ago, Jr86 said:

I very new in (trying to) repair watches. I bought an old ladies tissot 19.4,

Ladie's are a very poor choice for beginners. Everthing is smaller and much more difficult to work on, even for seasoned professionals . Many don't work on these, with an excuse or another. 

Quote

I thought that o could fix it and give it to my wife as a present.

For a sure present buy a working watch, and do some cleaning and restoration. 

Quote

Any advises, to make it run? 

That you practice first on something easier, consider enrolling in watch repairt lessons by our Host Mark Lovick, and return to this one later on.

You will probay read now the usual suggestions from our encouraging fellows, like check balance pivots, jewels, hairspring touching, etc, etc but unfortunately forum wisdom is no replacement for trained eyes and hands. 

[Rafael]

50 minutes ago, jdm said:

Ladie's are a very poor choice for beginners. Everthing is smaller and much more difficult to work on, even for seasoned professionals . Many don't work on these, with an excuse or another. 

Small watches are only a problem if you're struggling with manipulating very small parts. For some people (and from the look of the assembled watch OP posted, he's one of them) that's not a problem, even if you haven't got any watch repair experience.

 

Identifying a problem, regardless of the watch size, that a whole different story.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Rafael

[Nucejoe]

Gently lift one side of balance rim as you keep an eye on staff pivots from side view to see if pivots stay in jewel hole, do this test for lower and upper pivots. 

 

 

 

 

 

[jdm]

45 minutes ago, Rafael said:

Small watches are only a problem if you're struggling with manipulating very small parts.

Your statement comes from direct experience? Reading your previous postings seems that you have none with ladie's movements, rather wisely have recently started learning on a no-complications 11.5 ligmes modern watch, and then pretty much continued on the theme.

 I rest my case, even before it comes to mere dexterity, working on a ladie's watch is a sobering experience for anyone, and the less indicated choice for a beginner, perhaps only after attacking a €2000 Euro watch, altough we have seen that too.

Of course anyone is welcome to think differently, then bring his experience here, and why not post a walk throughout, after 6 years of this forum we haven't got any yet on the subject.

[Nucejoe]

Cheers guys, 

Op has already dis assemble& reassembled this movement, time to diagnose the fault now.

[Rafael]

53 minutes ago, jdm said:

Your statement comes from direct experience? Reading your previous postings seems that you have none with ladie's movements, rather wisely have recently started learning on a no-complications 11.5 ligmes modern watch, and then pretty much continued on the theme.

 I rest my case, even before it comes to mere dexterity, working on a ladie's watch is a sobering experience for anyone, and the less indicated choice for a beginner, perhaps only after attacking a €2000 Euro watch, altough we have seen that too.

Of course anyone is welcome to think differently, then bring his experience here, and why not post a walk throughout, after 6 years of this forum we haven't got any yet on the subject.

A. Ad hominem is not a good argument. Definitely not in a friendly hobbyists forum;  

B. Not all ladies watches movement's are the same. I've serviced men's movement which are smaller than some women's movements and 11.5", which actually was my first movement (AS 1802), was quite straight forward. Size was definitely not a problem. 

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by Rafael

[jdm]

47 minutes ago, Rafael said:

A. Ad hominem is not a good argument. Definitely not in a friendly hobbyists forum; 

After your polemic nonsense above I will be happy to leave this topic. Hope you can do better as in bringing useful advice the OP, I have mentioned the usual starting points already.

[watchweasol]

Well having serviced many ladies watches the smallest being the size of a marble maybe I qualify to have a go at the diagnosis.   Back to basics remove the power from the watch and then remove the balance and the fork, Now test the train for freedom by applying half a turn on the main spring, if the train wheels turn freely wit a little back spin when stopping the train is deemed free. Now fit the fork and put one to two turns on the mainspring and check the fork snaps back and forth when moved if that's ok  then re fit the balance after check, Inspect the pivots are intact,  Check the balance spring is flat and the coils are free and not touching and not sticking together when oscillating,  Thats for starters.

[Jr86]

Thank you all, I know that people recommend to start with pocket watches or man watch. I got a lot of old ladies watches as birthday together with a bunch of tools - it might not be the best to start but I’m having some fun and learning a lot. - just trying to get the best out of it..
 

Focusing on the problem: I actually tried that. The train is moving freely and now the fork is snapping (it wasn’t before seemed a bit to tight) I checked the balance and the pivots seem to be intact.. but I think there is something wrong with the balance 1) seems to tilt to the left 2) when the balance is in place seems to be to close to the fork plate (the plate that keeps the fork - don’t know the name)

I left some pictures of the balance. Thank you so much for the support

[Nucejoe]

This hairspring/ coil doesn't look anything like it should run.

I detach the balance complete from the cock then show us a top view of the coil.

 That the wheel tilts and possibly rubs on fork cock usually mean a broken jewel or bent balance wheel or badly bent pivot.

This is a no shock system which commonly breaks jewels and pivots. with the balance removed you can remove the two little screws that hold the end stone plate so to check and clean/ peg the jewels.

I always put back just the cock- balance assembly on mainplate, to check how freely balance oscilates, it gives me better access to get the coil leveled.

 

 

[watchweasol]

Hi Its commendable that you have got so far and proves you have the patience to to progress further.  Right having acertained the train freedom and the pallet / fork action we turn our attention to the balance.  I think Nucejoe covered the points that next require your attention. What  I would do is to verify that the balance is in poise (Square on the staff and running flat) this can be done by removing the balance spring and re fitting the balance and rotatating it with a small brush. Let down the power and remove the pallet/fork to avoid damage to the inpulse pin/jewel before doing this..   The bit that holds the pallet/fork in is the bridge.

You may find the attached document useful regarding the terminology.    cheers

1033305402_TZIllustratedGlossary(1).pdf

[Jr86]

2 hours ago, watchweasol said:

You may find the attached document useful regarding the terminology.

Thank you so much, going to read it carefully.

 

2 hours ago, watchweasol said:

this can be done by removing the balance spring and re fitting the balance and rotatating it with a small brush.

I actually tried, but I was to afraid to break the spring. So I went back to square 1, disassemble and reassemble everything and after that balance was still not working, so I thought to put it in the demagnetizer and it worked!! I demagnetized the entire movement and now the balance is working;

Unfortunately I still do not have a timegrapher (hopefully Xmas) to see how it’s running.. but I’m happy. 
 

now I took an old case and put the movement there. I guess restoring a case is whole other story

Thank you all for the support - I left some pictures 

[watchweasol]

Well done after looking at the state of the spring it looked as if it was sticking together either dirt oil or magnetised, well done you for working it out,  you obviously worked logically an progressivly and achieved a posative out come

The fact it was a ladies movement and small did not deter you. As mentioned earlier they are not the best to practice on being smaller and a bit more intricate but here we have success  now get stuck in with the rest well done

[richiesgr]

I've started to work on the same exact movement, but figured out that the third wheel have broken pivot on both end.

No replacement on ebay (at least I didn't find).  

Repivoting is impossible because first I feel the pivot is too small and anyway I don't have the tools so what to do ? junk ?

Thanks