Bezel spring replacement ft. “What makes the click.”

[Bradders]

A friend gave me this battered cheap Sub replica to play around with and I plan on re-purposing the case for something else with a new movement, face and hands.

I decided to pop the (rather slack) unidirectional bezel out to tighten the spring a little and also to remove the ceramic insert and replace it with something a bit less ‘Rolex’.

Anyway, I can’t figure out what makes the ‘click’ sound?
Should there be a part located in the hole indicated by my tweezers? Or is this a universal case that includes that hole to accommodate a flat bezel spring as an alternative?

Thanks in advance!
 

 

 

[Tudor]

Ugh. These reps are always a mess to work on. 
 

I believe the click is provided by the octagonal spring. The funnily bent end probably goes in the hole and the other end bears on the “teeth” in the bezel ring. 

[Bradders]

4 hours ago, Tudor said:

Ugh. These reps are always a mess to work on. 
 

I believe the click is provided by the octagonal spring. The funnily bent end probably goes in the hole and the other end bears on the “teeth” in the bezel ring. 

That would make sense BUT, the spring goes in a recess in the bezel and the hole is UNDERNEATH the bezel. I assume there may have been a bearing a tab sitting in the hole. The ratchet surface is under the bezel.

[Bradders]

The more I think about this the more sense it makes that something must have pinged out of that hole. It was a uni directional bezel so it must have been a piece of wire rather than a ball Bering and spring (I assume). 

[bklake]

This is an inexpensive Chinese replica.  Put yourself in the mindset of a mass mass producer of these.  The Chinese will default to the simplest cheapest method of doing something.  Don't complicate it in your mind.

 

The dog leg in the wire goes in the hole, the wire wraps around.  The straight end of the wire provides the one direction of turn.  It could be easy to get it back on or it could take you hours to tease it into place.  The one I did still had the insert in place and it was fiddly to get everything in place to install.  I think I put the dog leg in the hole, tilted the bezel and got the wire started in the grove, then turned the bezel while pushing it down into place.  The parts involved on mine were the wire and the bezel, that's it. 

Just keep it simple, that's what the manufacturer did. 

[Rafael]

The clicks should come from a metal ring with groves on it which fits flat under the bezel. As far as I know, no ring, no clicks.

[Bradders]

18 minutes ago, Rafael said:

The clicks should come from a metal ring with groves on it which fits flat under the bezel. As far as I know, no ring, no clicks.

It definitely wasn’t this method. I’d have noticed something this big!!

[Bradders]

5 hours ago, bklake said:

This is an inexpensive Chinese replica.  Put yourself in the mindset of a mass mass producer of these.  The Chinese will default to the simplest cheapest method of doing something.  Don't complicate it in your mind.

 

The dog leg in the wire goes in the hole, the wire wraps around.  The straight end of the wire provides the one direction of turn.  It could be easy to get it back on or it could take you hours to tease it into place.  The one I did still had the insert in place and it was fiddly to get everything in place to install.  I think I put the dog leg in the hole, tilted the bezel and got the wire started in the grove, then turned the bezel while pushing it down into place.  The parts involved on mine were the wire and the bezel, that's it. 

Just keep it simple, that's what the manufacturer did. 

I like your thinking but the serrations are on the underside of the bezel so it must have been something sticking out from the hole that made the click. It appears the hexagonal wire just stops the bezel falling off. 

[watchweasol]

Hi  some had a spring loaded ball bearing that usually goes missing if you remove the bezel with out knowing.  I read some where the ball from the end of a ball point pen is approx the same size.

[Rafael]

2 hours ago, Bradders said:

It definitely wasn’t this method. I’d have noticed something this big!!

After watchweasol's comment and few google searches, now that I see that big empty hole next to your tweezers i'm quite convinced you're missing the ball bearing.

[Rafael]

1 minute ago, Rafael said:

After watchweasol's comment and few google searches, now that I see that big empty hole next to your tweezers i'm quite convinced you're missing the ball bearing.

See here a detailed explanation of the pen trick:

https://thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/102126-replacing-bezel-ballspring-easily/

 

[Bradders]

13 minutes ago, Rafael said:

See here a detailed explanation of the pen trick:

https://thewatchforum.co.uk/index.php?/topic/102126-replacing-bezel-ballspring-easily/

 

You’re a star! I’ll try this tomorrow!

[Tudor]

The ball will allow it to click in both directions.

It may have been a wedge, with a spring under it. Is the hole definitely round, or does it have some feature to is, such as a slot?

I had a fake seadweller with two balls with springs and one "wedge" with a spring. The wedge was damaged and I had to reshape it in my case.

 

[bklake]

I've only been into one of these.  All that was there was the wire.  It could be that one end of the wire has broken off.  Mine had a 90 degree bend in one end that went into the hole.  The other end kicked out a little to engage the serrations.  It was that simple. 

Is there a wear mark on the bottom serration?  No wear marks, no ball or click spring.  Find the wear marks and you will find the method for the "click" .

[Bradders]

8 hours ago, bklake said:

I've only been into one of these.  All that was there was the wire.  It could be that one end of the wire has broken off.  Mine had a 90 degree bend in one end that went into the hole.  The other end kicked out a little to engage the serrations.  It was that simple. 

Is there a wear mark on the bottom serration?  No wear marks, no ball or click spring.  Find the wear marks and you will find the method for the "click" .

The wire sits in a recess within the bezel. The serrations are on the underside of the bezel, passing over the hole. I don't see any way you could locate the wire in the hole and also have it seated within the bezel recess. It must have been a small section of wire or a ball and spring acting on the serrations. My money is on a wire because it was uni-directional. I fashioned something out of a paper clip (below) last night which had the desired effect but was to thick to allow the bezel to seat flat. I'm going to destroy a biro tonight

Edited November 17, 2020 by Bradders

[bklake]

I have heard that you can't remove these bezels without destroying them.  There is a possibility that the wire broke from this or a previous attempt.  You are forcing me to fiddle with my Parnis to compare notes. 

A complex bend in cheap Chinese wire has a high likelihood of not working out well.  Any chance you can examine the ends of the wire?  Look for evidence that it was cut, filed or broken.  Broken will probably have a grainy look.  Cut or filed will be shiny. 

[bklake]

I stand corrected.

Now I have to fix my bezel. Was hoping to make it uni directional but not possible.

[Bradders]

27 minutes ago, bklake said:

I stand corrected.

Now I have to fix my bezel. Was hoping to make it uni directional but not possible.

Looks like we’ll both be destroying a biro then doesn’t it!!! To be honest, I think I might pop into a bearing supplier and find a ball bearing that sits snug. All my ballpoint pens seem too small. 

[bklake]

Birro is English english for ball point pen?  Those will work but the ball is tungsten and purposely rough.  It will eat up the bezel.  I have replaced the 1mm ball in several Seiko watches.  I bought a 100 count bag of 1mm stainless steel ball bearings on amazon.  This is not the same.  It is a spring loaded plunger with a pin in the center.   The pin is close to 1mm and the plunger is maybe 2.5mm?  I didn't have my calipers out and I already put the bezel back on.  Sorry about that.  Should have measured it.

 

You can see the spring in the hole in the first picture.  A watchmaker could probably turn one of these in 5 minutes.  I could see using a piece of brass rod and drill the center.  1mm SS music wire, nicely rounded.  Still thinking on where to get a suitable spring.  It was about 3mm high, maybe 4mm. 

A SS ball bearing closer to the size of the hole and a spring may work just fine. 

The bezel clicked back on with finger tip pressure for future reference. 

[Bradders]

1 minute ago, bklake said:

Birro is English english for ball point pen?  Those will work but the ball is tungsten and purposely rough.  It will eat up the bezel.  I have replaced the 1mm ball in several Seiko watches.  I bought a 100 count bag of 1mm stainless steel ball bearings on amazon.  This is not the same.  It is a spring loaded plunger with a pin in the center.   The pin is close to 1mm and the plunger is maybe 2.5mm?  I didn't have my calipers out and I already put the bezel back on.  Sorry about that.  Should have measured it.

 

You can see the spring in the hole in the first picture.  A watchmaker could probably turn one of these in 5 minutes.  I could see using a piece of brass rod and drill the center.  1mm SS music wire, nicely rounded.  Still thinking on where to get a suitable spring.  It was about 3mm high, maybe 4mm. 

A SS ball bearing closer to the size of the hole and a spring may work just fine. 

The bezel clicked back on with finger tip pressure for future reference. 

Yes, Biro is a brand of ball point pen. 
If you have a spare spring bar, you can remove the spring from that and cut it to size. 

[bklake]

The spring in there is much larger than any spring bar spring.  My watch is back together.  The spring in a Seiko diver is much stronger than any spring bar spring.  I have used both on projects.  The Biro ball and spring bar spring get the job done but are nowhere near factory parts in strength rating.  One genuine Seiko click ball and spring will set you back $15.  I got a 20 pack of springs and 100 pack of BBs for less than $15. 

The plunger is to the right of the hole, on its side, in the first picture.  It is installed in the hole in the second picture. 

[NickRno77]

I’m sorry to jump on this one. I have a very similar issue with my friend’s watch, the same as this, I think. I managed to remove the bezel. I didn’t see a click spring when I went to reinstall the bezel. I tried to press it on but it wouldn’t lock. It looks like the wire retaining hex spring would seat in the groove of the body? Any way doing this broke the ceramic bezel, so now I’ve got to find one. 

As I see it, the only way I can get the wire spring to locate in the groove is to insert the wire spring without the ceramic bezel installed.

It seems daft that I have to break the ceramic bezel to get the bezel back on?

Is this true, as I see someone commented you have to break the bezel to replace?