Waltham Issue

[Mike7756]

Hello all,

So I have a Waltham pocket watch (model 1887, estimated production in 1903) and it has trouble starting up. I can wind it up all the way and it won’t start ticking, but just tapping (what I believe is) the pallet fork It starts up. What can the issue be? I don’t know when the last service was done. I’m relatively new to watch repair and I’d like to know if this is an easy fix or something for a professional. 

[nickelsilver]

It could be just dried out oil and pocket lint keeping it from going. Or it could have several cracked jewels, the escapement completely out of adjustment (common on American watches, as they had easy to adjust bankings so that's what everyone tweaks when it doesn't run right), it could have worn or bent pivots, particularly on the balance staff, and probably a half dozen other things wrong with it. If you don't have any or much experience working on watches, set this one aside and find a more modern, large, Swiss movement, that's not automatic and without a date mechanism. 

 

While it's possible that it's a simple repair, and you wouldn't be the first to dive in with such a watch, it's much better to get some experience and confidence with simpler pieces which have likely seen much less abuse in their lifetime. The old American stuff can be quite a headache, with several different versions of pivot and jewel sizes, different mainsprings, for the same base caliber. Add to that they have probably been serviced a dozen times or more in the past (it was common to have your watch serviced every year at that time), and not always sympathetically, it's a potential can of worms.

 

If you are really set on getting into it post some pics and ask many questions!

[Nucejoe]

Sounds way out of beat. Does it run when you shake the wstch so to get the oscilator swing? 

 

[Mike7756]

1 minute ago, Nucejoe said:

Sounds way out of beat. Does it run when you shake the wstch so to get the oscilator swing? 

 

I forgot to mention that;

It does start up when you shake, but I’d say after 10 min it stops again and I’d need to repeat that, running less time than before. Eventually it does not run when shaken, and I still think that it is wound up a little. 

[Mike7756]

10 minutes ago, Mike7756 said:

I forgot to mention that;

It does start up when you shake, but I’d say after 10 min it stops again and I’d need to repeat that, running less time than before. Eventually it does not run when shaken, and I still think that it is wound up a little. 

At the time when I observed this was when it still was wound a little, and you do hear a couple swings and ticks

looking at it now, I feel like the oscillator is loose and uneven when looking at the side, it doesn’t seem to swing back and forth evenly. It’s very close to touching the metal under it, or maybe it is. 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Mike7756

[jdm]

1 hour ago, Mike7756 said:

Hello all,

Just to remind you that we have a dedicated section where it's considered polite for new members to introduce themselves.

[Nucejoe]

Loose oscilator is usually indicative of an issue with the balance pivot or jewel, pivot getting out of jewel hole, that is if there is a good jewel there, pivot might be broke or half broke or worn out too short so it can slide out of jewel hole.

Balance if unlevel wobbles and may rub on something its not suppose to.

Gently lift one side of balance wheel, with an oiler or piece of paper while you keep an eye on the pivot from side view, let us know if the pivot stays in or slides out of jewel hole. A close up side view vid of oscil running would be great. All on Mark Lovics bill.

As Jdm pointed out, introducing your self in appropriate section, telling us about your tech/horo experiences, helps us give a useful advice.

Welcome to the forum and good luck pal.

 

[Mike7756]

10 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Sounds way out of beat. Does it run when you shake the wstch so to get the oscilator swing? 

 

 

8 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Loose oscilator is usually indicative of an issue with the balance pivot or jewel, pivot getting out of jewel hole, that is if there is a good jewel there, pivot might be broke or half broke or worn out too short so it can slide out of jewel hole.

Balance if unlevel wobbles and may rub on something its not suppose to.

Gently lift one side of balance wheel, with an oiler or piece of paper while you keep an eye on the pivot from side view, let us know if the pivot stays in or slides out of jewel hole. A close up side view vid of oscil running would be great. All on Mark Lovics bill.

As Jdm pointed out, introducing your self in appropriate section, telling us about your tech/horo experiences, helps us give a useful advice.

Welcome to the forum and good luck pal.

 

Something weird; I took the balance balance assembled out, put it back in, turned the oscillator a little and when released, it’s ticking like normal. It’s been running for about 5 minutes as of now, I’m genuinely surprised it’s running now.

does this help filter out what can be wrong?

thanks for everyone’s advice so far

[Nucejoe]

So pivots are alright.

 

[Nucejoe]

5 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

So pivots are alright.

 

I should have said " there are pivots there",   next comes checking it in various positions. 

[KarlvonKoln]

I think I would start with a rudimentary cleaning.  Like, soak it for a couple hours in a sealed glass container of naphtha-type lighter fuel (Zippo brand will work, and will not harm the shellac on the jewels).  Don't breathe the fumes.  Hold it gently to agitate it a bit in there, VERY gently.  Then, after a while, pull it out and let it drain and dry, and see what it does.  See how it behaves.
There is a very slight chance that it may have had the residue of old whale-blubber-based  watch oil from ages past, all congealed in some out-of-the-way nook and bogging down the works.  If suddenly the movement seems less constipated, then things do get easier from there.  But not by much.  At that point, I would still say you should strip it down entirely and give it the cleaning it's not likely had in generations.  Inspect each part. Reassemble. Oil and grease as you go. That said, if the cleaning didn't help much, then at least you'll likely have stumbled upon other things in your inspection.

However, all that tear-down work can be done later if it seems a huge task to take on at the beginning.  If this pocket watch is important to you then, as Nickelsilver pointed out, you may want to come back to this one after you've had a bit of practice on some cheap or donor movements.