Cuckoo Clock

[oldhippy]

This is going to be a momentous task for someone who has little or no experience on these clocks. My own opinion is its not worth bothering with.   

[KarlvonKoln]

Michael1962 - I read your description and just thought "Oof!".  Oldhippy sounds like he speaks from wisdom and experience.  It's a kind of heartache being in that position and giving that kind of advice.  I remember a friend bringing me an antique pendant watch that he finally located in a cardboard box in his basement.  I think the watch had belonged to some female relative or other.  I recall having a bad feeling about it on sight.  And when I opened it up, I wasn't wrong.  It showed signs of his basement having flooded, and the box the watch was in likely having been on the floor.  To this day I've never seen more water damage in a watch.  So many parts, even the bridge plate, were badly corroded or pitted.  The hairspring was done for, and the mainspring too.  Cannon pinion = done.  Setting and motion = done.  Teeth eaten away, stem eaten away, case hinges corroded and pitted, latch-and-lift spring was just a long clump of rust.  It was every bit as bad as I make it sound.  It was at a stage where I'd be taking the base plate, cleaning it up, and building a "new" watch on it.  Then maybe using the front and back covers, putting new hinges on, and mounting them on a new case - and that's *if* they had enough solid metal near the hinge area.  I had to explain to my buddy that there would be only maybe 5% or 10% of the original watch in all that, and I'd be rounding up parts for who-knows-how-long.  I was still willing to do it for him, but he sadly requested just cleaning and stabilizing it enough that he could put it on a shelf as a non-working artifact.  I (somewhat reluctantly) did as he asked and just dunked it all in vinegar for a while to stop further corrosion, and then polished it. At no charge since I didn't repair anything.  He put it in a little leaded-glass box.  That was a sad day.  And a sad choice.  
No job like that is impossible, but some are so woefully impractical that they would eat up all your time and resources for other work.  And now that decision is in your court.  And I do not envy your position at all.  But it's still *your* clock, and if you decide to go for it, there will still be people in this forum who will help however they can.

Edited January 3, 2021 by KarlvonKoln
typo

[watchweasol]

Hi Micheal   from you description of the state of the clock It would be a task for some one who knows clocks but not impossible.  It depends on whether as its a family piece you would take it on, Me I am an Idiot and would see it as a challenge even if it took a year or more to do I would do it.  The delaminations and woodwork can be replaced the bellows repaired.  I have the material if you do take it on. and the music box and clock can be repaired, Chain can be bought as can weights,  Its a long term project but in the end its your choice. I wish you well and good luck, If you do decide to do it we are here to help. 

[Michael1962]

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your input. I do listen to all of it.

Unfortunately, I am probably an 'idiot' like @watchweasol. I see this as a challenge. I figure that I have nothing to lose. I will take my time and begin on it.

I will take photos of the connections of the movement and then get it out so that I can work out 'where to from here?'

I can't bear the thought of not trying. If it goes pear-shaped on me, I will have a nice box to hang on the wall like an ornament. I have a friend that does a lot of carpentry, so I am going to bounce a lot of ideas off him as well regarding how to delaminate the ply if possible.

What I did find funny was how I remembered it all being bigger than it is. I opened the back up and was quite shocked to see how small the movement actually is.

[Michael1962]

Is there a dependable way to remove rust from the weight chains for example? Or is purchasing new chains the easiest answer?

I just saw a website here in Melbourne, Australia that sells new Regula 25 movements for $185. If I can successfully reclaim the body of the clock, I could replace the movement and then have a 'learner' movement that I could practice on.

Other than wear and tarnishing, brass does not really suffer from a degrading condition like rust or corrosion really, does it?

[KarlvonKoln]

Soaking the rusted steel (ferrous) parts in vinegar will work wonders.  Seriously.  You could add a bit of lemon juice to speed things up, but white distilled vinegar will do the job.
My concern would be: are the chains rusted and pitted enough to be weakened?  Is there still enough metal thickness for sufficient strength?

You seem to have decided to go for it, and even have the beginnings of a game plan.  I think you may pull this off, after some time of course, but I think you'll do this.

Edited January 4, 2021 by KarlvonKoln

[Michael1962]

I'll give that a go, after some photos of course.

The rust is surface rust as best as I can tell. If I think it is suspect after the vinegar, I'll purchase replacements.

I should have thought of vinegar. When I was kid we used to put old bullets that we found in the bush in tomato sauce. The cheaper the better due to the higher acid concentration. I presume the same thing goes for the vinegar?

[oldhippy]

As you wan't to go down the road and give the clock a go well done you. You can soak the chains in coke or rough cider, just make sure that all the links are closed and the correct shape, this will help so that when the clock is working the chains feed onto the click whee correctly, any open end link close it up. Take many photos of the movement and study how the movement works on the strike side. With these movements everything is between two plates so you need to have the strike wheels in their correct alignment first time if possible. 

We are here to help you so if you get stuck or can't see the wood for the trees just ask.  

[Michael1962]

I have read the terms strike side etc a few times. I think I know what you mean, but I would like to confirm what the terms mean.

So as not to display my ignorance and try to guess what the terms mean, could you please outline them to me?

I need to go back to some of the earlier answers that you guys have given me and look to buy some books methinks.

[oldhippy]

Watch this and it will help you a lot.

 

[KarlvonKoln]

8 hours ago, Michael1962 said:

 

I should have thought of vinegar. When I was kid we used to put old bullets that we found in the bush in tomato sauce. The cheaper the better due to the higher acid concentration. I presume the same thing goes for the vinegar?

The vinegar is the active ingredient.  That's what does it.  I think the tomatoes in it may help out the same way lemon juice would, but the vinegar by itself is strong enough. I've cleaned many a rusty item this way.

[watchweasol]

Hi Michael  Good show a bit of true Aussie grit, Join the "Idiot club"  As Karl and Old hippy have said Vinegar/coke even the Tomato sauce and a brass brush will make a job on the chains. They won't come up like new but will be serviceable. If you were not thousands of miles away I could give you a Regula 25 movement as I have a spare. The Bellows material (Tyvek) and will post you some If you are unable to find it in Aussie. There are U tube videos on replacing the bellows not difficult once you get the pattern. As this is a three chain movement with music box and a carousel there are few extra gismo's on the standard  I have done a couple of these that fell off a wall both back with their owners and working.  One little gotcha is on the music box there is a stop lever and on the end of it to stop the govenor is a silicon tube usually it goes missing.  The Frankenmuth web site is worth a look.  We are here to help should you need it but I am sure you will do it and would like to see the result some time      all the best and good luck.

[watchweasol]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cuckoopalace.com%2Fcuckoo-clocks-blog%2Finstructions-setting-the-musicbox&psig=AOvVaw0rD9A2Gvp0CyE7hZLxxo49&ust=1609849554387000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=2ahUKEwjqv_WHo4LuAhVH4oUKHaLhCjQQr4kDegUIARDCAQ

Worth a perusal in view of the clock repair,        cheers

[Michael1962]

Other than some spanners and sockets etc that I have in my garage, what other tools would I need?

I wear multifocal glasses. Do you need a loupe to work on clock parts or can you get by with an OptiVisor for example? Or do I just go to our local chemist and buy some of the 3.5x reading glasses for about $10? I have also seen some of the other head worn magnifiers with some that let you piggyback lenses to increase the magnification that you get.

Pliers. All of the pliers I own have serrations on the jaws. Marks brass way too easy. Do I need to buy pliers that are plain jawed?

Broaches and reamers. I will try the clock tool sellers in Australia, but it looks very limited. A quick search brings up mostly overseas sellers. I have found some, but not prices or brands in every case. Very hard to compare between sites.

As I don't have a lathe and am not looking to get one as yet, I would need to purchase remade bushes. Based on what I have read above, I will need to find out what needs rebushing, condition of the associated pivots and that will determine what bush sizes I will need to purchase. That in turn will determine what broaches/reamers I will need. (The hip bone's connected to the leg bone.)

And so it begins......................

[oldhippy]

You will need a pair of box joint smooth jaw pliers. When it comes to an eyeglass it all depends on your sight, I had many eye glasses of different strengths. A pair of tweezers. Clock oil Windels is the best.  Various screwdrivers. A pair of nippers are handy and good to have around. A bench file smooth.  If it needs re bushing you will need as you say broaches/reamers Bergeon are the best but expensive, if you can't afford them go for the German ones. Here is a link. You will also need the bushes https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/mantel-clock-general  

 https://www.cousinsuk.com/category/broaches-cutting

[Michael1962]

Odd. Just saw a shop here in Geelong that sells ultrasonic cleaners and the manual (in Chinglish) says 'Not suitable for clock/watch mechanisms'.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Michael1962

[watchweasol]

Hi MIchael   Looks like OldHippy has given you a comprehensive list of tools that you need,  To clean the clock and parts a good clock cleaner (I use the Priory polishes one) Its a concentrate mixed 7:1 and a good clock brush and do it by hand burnishing it all with a brass brush. Windles is the best oil.  The ultrasonic is probably used for small jewelery and spectacle cleaning and not for long duration work as the transducer is likley to be low frequency.    Attached are a couple of documents you might find interesting.      cheers

Ultrasonic-Cleaning-Guide.pdf 1612608791_ToolsfortheHobbyist.pdf

[Michael1962]

Hi @oldhippy. Would the pliers I am after be pointy nose or snub nose?

When you say screwdrivers, are we talking about watchmaking screwdrivers?

[oldhippy]

This is the type of pliers. You don't need to spend out on bergeon. Just a good pair of smooth jaw. Screw drives not watchmakers. Just pick up a few from any hardware shop. 

https://www.hswalsh.com/product/pliers-flat-nose-smooth-jaw-bergeon-2510-hp2510

[Michael1962]

So i'm just after pliers then. Got a good set of screwdrivers.

Only thing is that they are magnetic which may not be the best idea. So a demagnetiser might be a good idea as well.

Thanks @oldhippy

[oldhippy]

Never use magnetized tools for clocks or watches. If you get pair of smooth jaw they won't mark the metal levers when it comes to unhooking  from the movement.  

[watchweasol]

Hi Michael   I have several pairs from heavy parallels to Jewelery pliers with fine points. some with round jaws, smooth jaws as mentioned, you pick them up as required   a useful pair if you can get them are ones with brass inserts in the jaws although a smooth jaw pair with leather on will suffice..  A demagnetiser I think is a must for keeping the tools free from magnetism.

[Michael1962]

OK. News.

My friend from up the street has given me a way forward with the delaminating ply sections, so that is good news. All within my capability so a plus there.

I took the magnifier that I had purchased back today (they weren't very happy about it). I'm not sure that they believe me that 5 dioptre means approx. 2.25 x magnification. So I will have a look further into a headband loupe. Oldhippy has given me a link to those so I will have a bit of a trawl. Surprisingly difficult to find suppliers in the colonies.

Do you have any idea how difficult it is now to find screwdrivers in a set that are not magnetic? I'll keep looking.

This clock will be the next one that I look at after the Hettich.

[Hugo]

I do not need to do bushing the wide pivot holes, the front plate hole is the most important, it needs support to relocate back to its original pivot site, I do not need n to remove the clock parts, after I wash and clean it with the special liquid, hose it off with water, all the dirt comes out, you can do it 3 times until clean under your inspection, then dry it with the hair dryer, by hand and my skill to shape the stainless steel stick, I insert it to the lower site of the oval pivot hole, 0.6mm wide stainless steel sits nicely to the position, with my skill the metal stick will support the deformed oval hole and push the pivot upward, then the gears of EW will sit nicely with the pallet, voila, it runs like a new one after 30 years run then stop, I feel very happy with my invention, I do not have any bushing machine or need to buy the expensive one, with my idea, I can fix any clocks with the trouble of worn out pivot holes, my experiment is successful, so what I know is good observation and creation will make something work, I enjoy my work!. I do not know how I can upload the video clip of my cuckoo clock in this web.

[watchweasol]

Hello Hugo and welcome to the forum.  An introduction would be very welcome,   I read with interest your method  to avoid dismantling and re bushing and would like very much to see your method and your handiwork on the cuckoo clock and as such pictures of the clock and your repairs would be, Im sure informative.