Lip r 148 movement.

[markr]

Knowing nothing of quartz watches when my Waltham diver died I got a running donor watch with the correct R 148 movement.  It came running but two weeks later when I went to swap movements the donor stopped.  Yes I did checked and replace batteries.  When I pull on the donor movements crown the balance spins 4 or 5 times then stops. Push in the crown and balance turns once or twice and stops.  What should be my next move?

 

[Nucejoe]

Isn't this electric?    I have a lip with similar looking movement.

 

  Check electrical contact. 

 

 

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, markr said:

Knowing nothing of quartz watches

I may be wrong here but I don't think this is a quartz watch.

52 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Isn't this electric? 

I think the battery is probably a clue that it's an electric watch.

3 hours ago, markr said:

When I pull on the donor movements crown the balance spins 4 or 5 times then stops. Push in the crown and balance turns once or twice and stops.  What should be my next move?

Do you have any electrical test equipment as this is A electric watch it be nice to have a power supply and some way to measure current and even resistance?

Then we really need a service manual for this one. Some balance wheel electric watches had a hack or a method of stopping the balance wheel. Then when you push the crown in a given to push so it take off and run and that's what you may be seeing right now when you're playing with the stem of the crown. Because otherwise to get a clue we need some electronic test.

[Melt]

Electric watches are fickle and often need a good shake to get them going.

If a good shake gets it running and it then stops again it's time for a service.

A bodge alternative to a service is to spray a degreaser on all the pivots and contacts........and you might get lucky. 

[JohnR725]

3 minutes ago, Melt said:

degreaser on all the pivots

Doesn't that affect the lubrication?

[Melt]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

Doesn't that affect the lubrication?

True but you can always re oil the pivots after. 

I'm not recommending this method as I would rather do a proper service. 

[watchweasol]

http://www.crazywatches.pl/lip-r148-belforte-spaceview-electric-1962  this site has the service manual so may well be worth a look for further information

[watchweasol]

http://forumamontres.forumactif.com/t4350-revue-technique-l ip-r148ther service information for you. Thinking about it when the stem is pulled the balance is moved to initiate the start therefore as the balance moves ok the hacking lever is doing its job, I think the fault ties else where.

[Melt]

Looking at the photo of the balance again I would say the beat arm needs to move clockwise by 15 to 20 degrees comparing it to other Lip r 148's on the web. Or pushing the rate arm anticlockwise to get it in the middle before the bend in the hair spring. This may help.

Edited December 15, 2020 by Melt

[Nucejoe]

  Its electric, Mark says he knows nothing of quartz watches.  

I know nothing of either one, but I can repair em.

Mark;  How freely does the balance wheel oscilate as you shake the watch, nudge the balance wheel to turn it, if at some point it kicks and shows any sign of life, its likely to be out of beat so bring the beat adjustor arm=( stud carrier arm) to the position that makes it kick. The sucker should kick and run.

Regs 

Joe

 

[markr]

The tab on the balance seams to be attracted to the tab on the coil.  A puff of air will swing the balance a few times and then the two tabs act like magnets.

[canthus]

Just a thought.  Are you sure the battery has 100% full voltage. It looks a bit domed (it should be flat) which is an indication that it is at the end of life and may not be giving enough voltage output.  Did you check voltage with a meter, it should be as near as possible to 1.5v, most new cells are about 1.56v. Below 1.4v and it needs changing.  Even 'new' batteries may have degraded in storage, so ensure it is a fresh new battery not one from old stock.

[markr]

I checked battery before replacing. 1.56v.

[markr]

I do have a volt meter but I don't know what I should be checking.

[JohnR725]

25 minutes ago, canthus said:

Are you sure the battery has 100% full voltage. It looks a bit domed (it should be flat) which is an indication that it is at the end of life and may not be giving enough voltage output.  Did you check voltage with a meter,

As you check the battery before why don't you take it out now and check it again?  It sometimes comes up in quartz watches  the shape of the negative contact  doesn't always have the desired effect if it's not shaped correctly. So I look at the pictures the insulator isn't very big it's possible your battery is shorting itself out if the insulator isn't covering everything. Ill be easy to test for you take the battery out and see what its current voltage is if it's down considerably you know you have a problem otherwise it's probably fine.

50 minutes ago, markr said:

The tab on the balance seams to be attracted to the tab on the coil.  A puff of air will swing the balance a few times and then the two tabs act like magnets.

Lip was working with Elgin who had a very interesting idea for basically enhancing the magnetic field.. Lip is using the same technology you're right the tabs are magnets but electromagnets. One end of the coil with its tab is one poll.. The other end of the coil is magnetically coupled only around under the balance wheel up through the balance wheel  to the other tab.. Then  alignment of things is critical  because when the balance wheel is in the right position  it engages the contact which turns on the electromagnet  which attracts the balance wheel tab to the stationary end of the coil. Just before  contact opens in the balance wheel swings past.. So if you start pushing things around just because you're going to have to put them back exactly where there supposed to be or the watches never going to run at all..

Then the contacts and the stuff that can move around shouldn't move around by itself so I would go back and look at  whether the battery is actually supplying power to the watch Or whether it somehow shorted itself out..

[Nucejoe]

1 hour ago, markr said:

The tab on the balance seams to be attracted to the tab on the coil.  

Its supposed to, so to set the oscilator in motion, however, as balance turns at certain angle electric current is to get switched off which switches  the magnetic field off, so that oscilator would be free of reaches its max amplitude and turns back to completes a full oscilation, where the current gets switched back on again.

John well covered all there is , the electric circuit doesn't switch off or it does so way out of beat ( correct angular position of balance).

Try demagin the hairspring, if it is sticking it will keep the balance out of beat.

or its a short circuit somewhere.

Good luck.

 

[markr]

Do I need to remove hairspring to demag or can I do the whole movement?

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, markr said:

Do I need to remove hairspring to demag or can I do the whole movement?

You very definitely do not want to demagnetized the entire movement. Typically with electric watches balance wheel type there will be permanent magnets. There's usually one to hold the escape wheel or whatever it's called in place and this watch has one of those. Then the other problem would be here inducing up rather strong magnetic field with a watch that has a coil and at its going to generate energy that conceivably could burn the diode out may be. The diode's there to protecting its back EMF from its own the coil and a very strong magnetic field conceivably would be worse in the field its own coil could generate. Then personally I would doubt that the hairspring would get magnetized because it should be a nonmagnetic hairspring.