Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted

I’m doing a job for a gent on a BW Raymond 16S Elgin 21 Jewel and I have noticed that the new balance he sourced is the same length, but the balance shoulder and seat seem to ba a bit off. Included some disassembly photos. Plus the last guy shellacked the heck out of the roller jewel. Not sure why and I may need to clean this up....can’t let it go; darn!

684B3203-64D9-49BD-B75B-C00DC1459757.jpeg

0A53B209-1D3F-4D4D-B78D-A7E6F3B86899.jpeg

ED2FE409-CA57-4BA9-8917-159094E3DA78.jpeg

D2684D7D-2FE0-4412-BACD-036F7BC0761F.jpeg

AF583002-752F-4D64-9FEC-8129A32C01DE.jpeg

D357179A-5790-45D7-8E26-25440D1A333B.jpeg

60B3FDD3-7C79-46C1-B213-028F1341EE8D.jpeg

1032E2F5-585A-4E2E-B78A-A98F9D81101B.jpeg

489B39BB-DDC7-42F3-B80D-38B181CC8347.jpeg

9C84A9BA-BC06-4FF7-B033-E8A0AED24504.jpeg

2DB3A4A7-4EDF-4FB1-AE06-5C14CCD1C7FB.jpeg

6AD7F9E4-E1C5-4485-8A13-3B9297C28012.jpeg

071FDBA3-308B-4FA4-804F-6E52636D1C25.jpeg

B992335C-905A-476E-93C5-D56A9F37F2A8.jpeg

775410F5-A06F-4A69-8CE2-B3E2143F3163.jpeg

  • Like 1
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jdrichard said:

I’m doing a job for a gent on a BW Raymond 16S Elgin 21 Jewel and I have noticed that the new balance he sourced is the same length, but the balance shoulder and seat seem to ba a bit off. Included some disassembly photos. Plus the last guy shellacked the heck out of the roller jewel. Not sure why and I may need to clean this up....can’t let it go; darn!

He or SHE ? shellacked it because shoulder dia was too small and roller could not be secured on the staff. Right?

And because this is a double roller - more shellac is "better"... 

Nice photos and great tools!

Edited by Poljot
Posted
59 minutes ago, Poljot said:

He or SHE ? shellacked it because shoulder dia was too small and roller could not be secured on the staff. Right?

And because this is a double roller - more shellac is "better"... 

Nice photos and great tools!

So I might have the same problem when putting in the new balance staff.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jdrichard said:

So I might have the same problem when putting in the new balance staff.

Well, only time will tell ?

I would try (by hand) the roller on your new staff to see if it's loose, or not. Are you able to  make a new Staff?

 

Edited by Poljot
Posted
2 hours ago, Poljot said:

Well, only time will tell ?

I would try (by hand) the roller on your new staff to see if it's loose, or not. Are you able to  make a new Staff?

 

Yes I can. Made a few but not often.

Posted
14 hours ago, jdrichard said:

BW Raymond 16S Elgin 21 Jewel

I don't suppose you give me the staff number so I can looked up something?

Posted

The original staff looks like it has a proper back-slope to help prevent oil spreading. I’m sure the new one will be fine without. 
 

From what I can see from your comparison photo, it’s hard to tell if the balance rim (and therefore hairspring) will remain at the same height. Can possibly address that later if there is an issue. 
 

Bear in mind that the excess shellac on the roller may in fact be holding it together if it is split. 

Posted
2 hours ago, rodabod said:

The original staff looks like it has a proper back-slope to help prevent oil spreading. I’m sure the new one will be fine without. 
 

From what I can see from your comparison photo, it’s hard to tell if the balance rim (and therefore hairspring) will remain at the same height. Can possibly address that later if there is an issue. 
 

Bear in mind that the excess shellac on the roller may in fact be holding it together if it is split. 

You are perhaps correct. If that is so, I will need to source another roller table. Or figure something out. Not sure if I can make a roller table on my lathe...but anything is possible.

Posted

One of the problems with fitting balance staffs especially American pocket watch is they often came in variations. Not only variations but oftentimes variations with the exact same part number. Then aftermarket replacement staff's didn't always dimension exactly the same as the original just to make things more interesting. If you give me a serial number I can look up and get the dimensions of the original staff for you?

Posted
6 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

One of the problems with fitting balance staffs especially American pocket watch is they often came in variations. Not only variations but oftentimes variations with the exact same part number. Then aftermarket replacement staff's didn't always dimension exactly the same as the original just to make things more interesting. If you give me a serial number I can look up and get the dimensions of the original staff for you?

This is the staff it is suppose to be based on the movement SN.

533C38BA-C9D8-44D4-83DF-0171193E7BD4.png

2DCE2A14-7489-477D-B52E-E4C6E92B8FAE.jpeg

Posted

The good news is there appears to only be one staff with that number in three different pivots sizes. But the bad news is the staff number you have above is a bestfit staff although it's not entirely bad as you have lathe as there usually oversize.

elgin 2532c.JPG

3532 dr.JPG

  • Like 1
  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Decided to update with the repaired watch back in rotation and the new anniversary gift.   
    • I’ve been playing with a NH35 movement that which has the classic Etachron regulation system and a few balance assemblies as practice. What I’m trying to do is get comfortable with the effect both the stud and regulator pin positions have on rate and positional error. When I install a new balance assembly I install it with the assembly in place  on the cock and cock is attached to base plate. I use the back of the tweezers to push the stud into place and feel the click. However, I noticed that the angle of the stud can be adjusted and what I also noticed is that some movements have the stud carrier arm bent down a little and that changes the angle of the hairspring leaving the stud. This angle effects how the spring goes through the regulator pins and also the spacing of the coils opposite the stud. What I thought I was supposed to do is set the regulator block in the middle of the curve, open the pins, and use the stud angle to center the spring.  Then the stud is set.  Now on all the new NH movements I have seen the angle of the regulator block is about 60 degrees counter clockwise from full open. I watched a video where the author used the regulator pin adjust to adjust rate and position error. When I close down the pins I do notice that the rate increases but also the amplitude drops, the coil spacing changes and hairspring appears slight straighter between the stud and the regulator block. If I open the pins the amplitude comes back, the spring breathes a bit more between the stud and the regulator block and the rate slows.  So, a long post I know but I would really appreciate any advice on how to correctly adjust the etachron system for rate, amplitude and positional error.   
    • Aw come on Andy, it was just a comparison between spending 30 quid and tackling a tricky piece of work. You appeared to be volunteering,  i volunteer for stuff all the time it gets me into all kinds of trouble.
    • It's not really shown here , but the blade flips over, so it faces the other way. The knob and threaded case holder then pushes the caseback seam into the blade. Once the blade starts to penetrate into it, the lever and blade are lifted , which should hopefully pop the back off. A lot of fashion style cases have very tight seams and need a sharp blade to start separating them.  Don't buy the cheaper plastic versions of this tool, the posts with the pins through for blade holder break easily if the apply extra force to blade. 
    • You will still be looking for a balance complete I’m afraid, this is the balance staff, balance wheel and hairspring in one package. Hairspring and the balance wheel are matched in the factory. Whilst we can change a balance staff the hairspring and balance wheel stay together.   Tom
×
×
  • Create New...