Color Matching Old Lume

[Woolshire]

Wondering what everyone’s method/material is for color matching very old lume on watch hands. I don’t want it to glow, just refill the hour hand to match the old minute hand, as the radium “paint” is gone from the hour hand.

[MechanicMike]

Tough one.  You're going to have to experiment, mix and match different colors to get close.  Use hobbyist Testor enamel .

[thebosston]

I have seen videos of guys reluming the hands with a neutral white lume and then applying small amounts of coffee on top of the dried white lume. The results were good, but they went for a light brownish color. Maybe if you repeat that process several times, you may reach your desired color. But as disclaimer: I have never done it by my self, so do your own research on that coffee-aging-topic

[Woolshire]

Thanks for the responses so far. I was wondering about flat enamel. Anybody use anything else to get the match? If the enamel doesn’t turn out right, is it easy to remove from bottom on hands?? Also, will the Testors gap the opening in the hand, or does it need to be thickened somehow?

[Woolshire]

I think I answered the thickness question. Testors is thick enough to bridge the gap. Now need to work on cleaning the excess on the ribs of the hand on the underside. Lacquer thinner, I’m guessing

[nickelsilver]

A hard thing to replicate with old lume is the texture, they are never smooth, usually with a grainy look. I've used ground up colored chalk, mixed with lacquer, to get the look. Lately I've been using UV glue as well with good success. It takes a few tries to get something that isn't too much chalk, which is hard to work with, or too liquid, which makes it hard to bridge the gap. Also, with lacquer, it does shrink as it dries, which can be good or bad depending on what you want. The UV glue stays the same.

[arron]

Before I start down this path of painting vintage watch hands I thought I would check in and follow up on a couple of the comments above.  @Woolshire How did your hands turn out using the flat enamel paint? In order to get the vintage look I was thinking about mixing some brown and yellow with white.  If that doesn't work I might also try the chalk and lacquer as mentioned by nickelsilver.

 

@nickelsilver could you explain your technique using the UV glue. I am all set for that kind of operation because I also work on fountain pens and have accumulated the lamps, glues and dyes. So that might also be an option for me, but I'm having a hard time visualizing how that would be done. Do you do it just like when you lume hands so that you drag a drop of the glue on the backside of the hand and then put the UV light to it?  I also wonder if with the UV glue if it doesn't have more of a glossy/plastic look to it?

 

I have an eBay lot of hands coming in the mail to practice on so I'm hoping to gather the paints or whatever other materials I need in the mean time.  Thank you.

[praezis]

I tried UV nail laquer mixed with lume powder recently: it became terribly glossy, unnatural.

I use lume powder of just right grain, tinted with artists color pigment, mixed with a sort of glue that I got from a lumeing company- no idea, what it is. Dried it looks exactly like original vintage lume, same grain.

Just finished, min. hand original early 40s lume, hour hand was empty:

[arron]

i quite like that.  i'm guessing the glue was lacquer that usually comes with the powder in lume kits.  but what colors and kind of pigment did you use?  maybe an emamel paint?

[praezis]

36 minutes ago, arron said:

but what colors and kind of pigment did you use?

It is pigment powder.

[HectorLooi]

There is always more than one way to skin a cat and everyone have their own personal preference. 

There are 3 types of binder commonly used lume.

1. Solvent based varnish. This is the original old school way. Lume powder us mixed with a solvent based varnish and a solvent is added to achieve the desired consistency. Downside is there is a limited working time. And in git climates, this can be very frustrating, especially if you have a fan or AC blowing at you. And the room get filled with solvent vapors.

2. Water based glues. Craft glue like Elmer's, which turn translucent when dry can be used as a binder. Advantages are longer working times and low cost. Disadvantages are long drying times and some steel hands can rust while drying.

3. UV curing resins. This can be nail varnishes, UV glues, UV varnishes. Advantages are long working times, fast set. Disadvantages are steep learning curve and difficult to remove afer setting, 

I have been using the UV cured method for several years. The working consistency of the mix has to be very dry to avoid a glossy finish because there is no solvent or water to evaporare away. The thickness of the applied layer has to be thinner as there is minimal shrinkage after setting.

There is no right method to anything in watchmaking, unlike what French chefs say. Experiment and see what works for you.

[arron]

2 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

There is no right method to anything in watchmaking

I'm sure many novices including myself appreciate that observation.  As I was out doing my shopping tonight and was wearing my Elgin a 11 wrist watch I recalled that I had refinished its hands some time ago and did it with brown and white acrylic paints to create a vintage look. Those hands are solid so the paint does not need to be suspended over a void. I'm not sure if that would work with the hands I'm currently working on. But what the heck I already have the paint so I will give it a go once my donor hands arrive.  

[tIB]

I used a far less precise method: colours from my daughter's paint set mixed in to my standard lume/humbrol lacquer mix! 

(My colour mixing/matching isn't too bad though - I was a printer earlier in my working life so have quite a bit of experience there.)

[rehajm]

Lume color and texture is a fully different talent…I have not acquired. I have one of those kits with three different texture powders and 8 color pigment powders. I think it was from Lobtime. I can achieve acceptable results with the tans and browns and non luminous green. Most other colors I usually end up buying the color/texture I want rather than try to mix it…

Don’t get me started on ‘white’ …

…I just did orange to cover major surgery on this chrono seconds hand. The original orange has a textured appearance that looks like cerakote. I added a bit of texture powder to testor paint and it passes the 30cm test, though a touch too clean…

Edited March 1 by rehajm

[RichardHarris123]

Our sofa had a rip in it. I bought a repair kit, 20 minutes of add this, add that, a perfect colour match. Very proud of myself, until it dried!!! Definitely not the same colour anymore. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

11 hours ago, praezis said:

I tried UV nail laquer mixed with lume powder recently: it became terribly glossy, unnatural.

I use lume powder of just right grain, tinted with artists color pigment, mixed with a sort of glue that I got from a lumeing company- no idea, what it is. Dried it looks exactly like original vintage lume, same grain.

Just finished, min. hand original early 40s lume, hour hand was empty:

Thats a bloody good match Frank !

12 hours ago, arron said:

also wonder if with the UV glue if it doesn't have more of a glossy/plastic look to it?

 

If its a uv nail laquer then I think it will come in a satin and matt finish as well as gloss.

1 hour ago, RichardHarris123 said:

Our sofa had a rip in it. I bought a repair kit, 20 minutes of add this, add that, a perfect colour match. Very proud of myself, until it dried!!! Definitely not the same colour anymore. 

Sounds almost as much fun as touching in an old piece of furniture finish, it's an art matey. 

I would go along with @HectorLoois first option, if you want a finish to look  as close to the original as possible then follow the original application process and maybe try to factor in some ageing and distressing technique so that it sympathises with the rest of the watch's appearance. 

[rehajm]

1 hour ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Thats a bloody good match Frank !

Yes very impressive close up. What’s your technique for the age spots? It looks quite natural…

[praezis]

29 minutes ago, rehajm said:

What’s your technique for the age spots?

What do you refer to? Only the hour hand was restored, everything else is age.

[rehajm]

5 minutes ago, praezis said:

What do you refer to? Only the hour hand was restored, everything else is age.

It looks like you simulated the black age spots around the edges. Is that just a shadow of the edge of the hand?

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 minutes ago, rehajm said:

It looks like you simulated the black age spots around the edges. Is that just a shadow of the edge of the hand?

  ?     I only see that to any obvious degree on the minute hand .

[tIB]

I did some aging of my 6105 repro hands to match the rot on the markers using a green-black humbrol mixed with water in different strengths, applied with a cotton bud. Looks better than bright white on that imo, and easy enough to put right.

 

Edited March 1 by tIB

[praezis]

38 minutes ago, rehajm said:

It looks like you simulated the black age spots around the edges. Is that just a shadow of the edge of the hand?

No, just filled. But you could add age signs like in the minute hand. I use a fine brush and my artists watercolors then on the dried lume.

However very rarely, if justified, as it would be near to fake.

Frank

[Malocchio]

Using just binder and powder makes a glossier finish. I like to make a thick paste with the binder and powder. So thick that you couldn't spread it but it gets mixed evenly without clumps. I then dilute it with a solvent to get it runny enough. After applying the solvent evaporates and you get lume that has a higher powder to binder ratio. Of course it's more brittle too but you might be able to apply several layers to get a more luminous result. And the texture is more matt too.