Waterproof Testers

[omgiv]

I understand that proper waterproof testing in today's dive watches is very important.  There seem to be quite a number of types of testers on the market now.  Everything from dry vacuum testers, wet vacuum testers, and were pressure testers that try to push the water inside of the case with pressure.  This last version is where my questions comes.  Both the Lititz Dive 125 and Roxer Natator 125 work the same way.  You put the watch in the chamber, cover it with water, and seal it up.  Pressure is created in the chamber trying to push the water inside of the case.  After the designated time, the pressure is released, and the watch is place on a temperature controlled hot plate for a period of time.  A drop of cold or room temperature water is placed on the crystal and it will be clear if it passes.  If it clouds up, the watch has failed the test.  

 

If the watch in question does indeed fail, does that mean that it is necessary to take apart the movement again and clean it?  A failed test to me says that water has made it into the case.  Is that the correct operating procedure?  I would think that one would use on of the other types of testers would be used first just to make sure everything seems okay before  submitting the case to such extreme pressure.  The other question I have is if the test is first performed without the movement in the case and then redone once everything is cased up.  I have never used one of these before but am interested in them.  Thanks for the help!  

[Mark]

I have not used a Roxer but I have used both the Bergeon and Calypso wet testers.

 

The wet testers will push compressed air into the watch case IF there is a leak. 

Only when the air is compressed do you plunge the watch into the water.

If there is a leak then the watch case will be filled with compressed air and water cannot enter the leak.

Then with the watch still in the water, you slowly allow the air to de-compress. Any air in the watch will want to escape the case and it will do so through the leak.

Because air is escaping, water cannot enter.

You will see air escaping because bubbles will shoot out.

If you see air escaping then you know there is a leak and the location of that leak.

 

So - if the above is all done correctly then the test is safe and you should not get water in the watch as a result. You can then dry off the case and deal with the problem and try again.

 

If you suspect there is a leak before hand and you just want to know the location, you can do all of the above with the movement removed. This is easier if you have a screw-down crown, but if not then place the crown and stem in the case and secure it with a little tape - then perform the test.

 

 

 

The Dry testers (Elma, Witshi) are safe tests as they obviously do not involve water at all.

 

 

It is not a good idea to use the term "Water Proof" as no watch is water proof. We should describe it as "Water Resistance".

 

Here is some further information:

 

Water Resistance Classification

 

The "Water Resistant" mark has come to replace "Water Proof" and is now described by the following ISO-Standard 2281:

Declaration on dial or back:

 

 

NO DECLARATION

• This model is NOT water resistant.

• Any water contact should be avoided.

 

WATER RESIST

• This model is resistant to minor and Accidental Splashes.

• Greater water contact should be avoided

 

WATER RESISTANT 30M (3 ATM / 100 Feet) *

• Protected in everyday life, bathing, accidental splashes, short swimming or car washing - it is resistant against perspiration, water vapor, rain drops.

• It is tested for water resistance up to 3 ATM, and must be able to survive 30 minutes under water at a depth of 1 m (3 feet) followed by 90 seconds under a pressure corresponding to 30 meters

   

WATER RESISTANT 50M (5 ATM / 160 Feet) *

• Protected in everyday life, bathing, accidental splashes, short swimming, car washing, parachuting, hang gliding and skiing - it is resistant against perspiration, water vapor, rain drops.

• It is tested for water resistance up to 5 ATM corresponding to 50 meters

WATER RESISTANT 100M (10 ATM / 300 Feet) *

• Protected in everyday life, swimming, snorkeling, mountain climbing, parachuting, hang gliding, skiing and all kinds of sports challenges

• It is tested for water resistance up to 10 ATM corresponding to 100 m

WATER RESISTANT 200M (20 ATM / 660 Feet) *

• Protected in everyday life, free diving without scuba gear, and all kinds of water sports.

• It is tested for water resistance up to 20 ATM corresponding to 200 m

   

WATER RESISTANT 300M (30 ATM / 1000 Feet) *

• Protected for scuba diving to a depth of 30 meters, for 2 hours.

• It is tested for water resistance up to 30 ATM corresponding to 300 m

WATER RESISTANT 500M (50 ATM / 1650 Feet) *

• Protected for scuba diving to a depth of 50 meters, for 2 hours.

• It is tested for water resistance up to 50 ATM corresponding to 500 m

​

* The metres value does not relate to a diving depth but to the air pressure used in the course of the water resistance test. (DIN 8310, ISO 2281, NIHS 91-10) 

 

[Ishima]

Great reply mark.

I'd like to disagree with one thing though, I don't think that 30 meters is truly safe for swimming, I think it's generally okay, but there is still a small but significant chance that a 30 meter tested watch will take on water during swimming or other intentional/prolonged submersion, I always advise my customers against swimming in their watch unless it is 50 meters resistant, call me overly cautious.

But what I've just said is debated. Some professionals do promise 30 meters for swimming. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by Ishima

[Mark]

I fully agree with Ishima.

 

Personally I would not trust any watch specified as Water Resistant for wearing under water unless it has a working screw-down crown or a double o-ring crown, a minimum of 1.5mm glass or an armoured UB, and a screw-down back and rated at least 100M

[Ishima]

Oh, you're even more cautious than I am, there's some food for thought. 

[omgiv]

Thank you gentlemen for the replies and for the information.  I usually use caution when get watches wet myself.  You never know when that day will come when it has "failed".  I currently have the Elma dry tester and the Calypso tester but have been studying the other types of testers.  If there is condensation under the crystal for the other types of testers, doesn't that mean that water has entered the case?  If that is indeed the case, I would think that the movement would have to be cleaned again to prevent rust and then tried again.  Would that be correct?  Thank you again.

[Mark]

If the watch is warmed up (have it in your pocket for a while until it is warm) and you put a dab of cold water on the glass, if the glass steams then it is possible there is a trace of moisture in the watch. This has happened to me in the past when I had not dried a case completely (turns out some moisture was still trapped in the pusher areas inside the case). 

[bobm12]

Excellent, now I can use my Chinese wet tester with confidence. Thank you Mark!

 

I also had the same problem from the previous post (#7). Only, I use Windex (ammoniated and non ammoniated glass cleaners) so one more puff of air clear everything...careful with the glued on crystals and the ammoniated cleaner!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[Lokifish]

Just a heads up. The old rules for water resistance, ISO 2281, were superseded by ISO 22810:2010. This means that all watches made since 2010, that use the ISO standard, are real world water resistant to the depth marketed.

[Geo]

Just a heads up. The old rules for water resistance, ISO 2281, were superseded by ISO 22810:2010. This means that all watches made since 2010, that use the ISO standard, are real world water resistant to the depth marketed.

Thanks for the information, and welcome to the forum. :)

It would be good to know what you get up to in the horological world.

[bobm12]

Welcome to the forum Lokifish! Good first post!

 

Cheers,

 

Bob

[Andyclient]

 

I have not used a Roxer but I have used both the Bergeon and Calypso wet testers.

 

The wet testers will push compressed air into the watch case IF there is a leak. 

Only when the air is compressed do you plunge the watch into the water.

If there is a leak then the watch case will be filled with compressed air and water cannot enter the leak.

Then with the watch still in the water, you slowly allow the air to de-compress. Any air in the watch will want to escape the case and it will do so through the leak.

Because air is escaping, water cannot enter.

You will see air escaping because bubbles will shoot out.

If you see air escaping then you know there is a leak and the location of that leak.

 

So - if the above is all done correctly then the test is safe and you should not get water in the watch as a result. You can then dry off the case and deal with the problem and try again.

 

If you suspect there is a leak before hand and you just want to know the location, you can do all of the above with the movement removed. This is easier if you have a screw-down crown, but if not then place the crown and stem in the case and secure it with a little tape - then perform the test.

 

 

 

The Dry testers (Elma, Witshi) are safe tests as they obviously do not involve water at all.

 

 

It is not a good idea to use the term "Water Proof" as no watch is water proof. We should describe it as "Water Resistance".

 

Here is some further information:

 

Water Resistance Classification

 

The "Water Resistant" mark has come to replace "Water Proof" and is now described by the following ISO-Standard 2281:

Declaration on dial or back:

 

 

NO DECLARATION

• This model is NOT water resistant.

• Any water contact should be avoided.

 

WATER RESIST

• This model is resistant to minor and Accidental Splashes.

• Greater water contact should be avoided

 

WATER RESISTANT 30M (3 ATM / 100 Feet) *

• Protected in everyday life, bathing, accidental splashes, short swimming or car washing - it is resistant against perspiration, water vapor, rain drops.

• It is tested for water resistance up to 3 ATM, and must be able to survive 30 minutes under water at a depth of 1 m (3 feet) followed by 90 seconds under a pressure corresponding to 30 meters

   

WATER RESISTANT 50M (5 ATM / 160 Feet) *

• Protected in everyday life, bathing, accidental splashes, short swimming, car washing, parachuting, hang gliding and skiing - it is resistant against perspiration, water vapor, rain drops.

• It is tested for water resistance up to 5 ATM corresponding to 50 meters

WATER RESISTANT 100M (10 ATM / 300 Feet) *

• Protected in everyday life, swimming, snorkeling, mountain climbing, parachuting, hang gliding, skiing and all kinds of sports challenges

• It is tested for water resistance up to 10 ATM corresponding to 100 m

WATER RESISTANT 200M (20 ATM / 660 Feet) *

• Protected in everyday life, free diving without scuba gear, and all kinds of water sports.

• It is tested for water resistance up to 20 ATM corresponding to 200 m

   

WATER RESISTANT 300M (30 ATM / 1000 Feet) *

• Protected for scuba diving to a depth of 30 meters, for 2 hours.

• It is tested for water resistance up to 30 ATM corresponding to 300 m

WATER RESISTANT 500M (50 ATM / 1650 Feet) *

• Protected for scuba diving to a depth of 50 meters, for 2 hours.

• It is tested for water resistance up to 50 ATM corresponding to 500 m

​

* The metres value does not relate to a diving depth but to the air pressure used in the course of the water resistance test. (DIN 8310, ISO 2281, NIHS 91-10) 

 

Thanks for the explanation Mark , that's a lot clearer than the instructions that came with my Chinese tester .

I didn't think i was doing it correctly , I was releasing the air after 3 minutes then immersing the watch and wondering why no bubbles came from the case but there was water in the watch.

Have done it as you say immerse the watch then release the air and can now see a steady stream of bubbles.

cheers Andy

[alexndr]

On 2015-03-26 at 7:57 PM, Mark said:

 .. but I have used both the Bergeon and Calypso wet testers ..

So which one do you prefer and why? I'm just about to get a machine of my own. Bergeron 5555/98 (3 atm) is about the same price as the Calypso (10 bar). Bergeon 5555/10 (10 atm) seems good but it's nearlly twice as expensive. 

Bergeon is known for creating solid tools but sometimes it seems that they are the double amount for just having that "Bergeon sticker". Calypso is from Italy? Can the Italiens really develope good, long lasting watchmaking tools? 

[Mark]

I have no preference. They both do the same job.

I had the calypso for 15 to 20 years (can't remember) and it's still doing the job just fine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jdm]

Calypso is from Italy? Can the Italiens really develope good, long lasting watchmaking tools? 

Mispelling aside, that's kind of a condescending statement toward Italian products.

 

I use a 6 bar Chinese machine that works perfectly and cost less than $200.

 

 

[alexndr]

6 hours ago, jdm said:

Mispelling aside, that's kind of a condescending statement toward Italian products.

 

 

That was not my intention. I'm not much for generalizations and would like to correct myself. My questions should have been: "Are Calypso tools any good". It's a totally unknown brand to me. Mark's answer gave me one opinion.

Based on my experience with Chinese tools (many of them seems to have weak steel?) I will keep away from the much cheaper Chinese version. But that is just me. 

 

 

 

[jdm]

4 minutes ago, alexndr said:

That was not my intention. I'm not much for generalizations and would like to correct myself. My questions should have been: "Are Calypso tools any good". It's a totally unknown brand to me. Marks answer gave me one opinion.

Based on my experience with Chinese tools (many of them seems to have weak steel?) I will keep away from the much cheaper Chinese version. But that is just me. 

No problem at all. We have often discussions about cheap tools and what matters most is being objective. I have many which serves me well (including the pressure one) and others which I have fun in ridiculing.  

I hope you can find the machine that works better for you at the right price.

Edited February 5, 2017 by jdm

[david]

One of the countries I used to travel to in a previous job was Italy. I used to design automated machinery most of which was for the production of electric motors. I visited many production facilities in Italy and was very impressed with the level of technology in their factories. Actually seeing what was going on in that country quickly dispelled many of the bad jokes about Italian products that I had heard throughout the years. They did first rate work that was on a par with any other country. Their food was also the best  I had anywhere else in the world. The borders of Italy and Switzerland join at the Alps mountains and it is possible (but challenging) to walk from Italy to Switzerland. 

david

[alexndr]

1 hour ago, david said:

One of the countries I used to travel to in a previous job was Italy. I used to design automated machinery most of which was for the production of electric motors. I visited many production facilities in Italy and was very impressed with the level of technology in their factories. Actually seeing what was going on in that country quickly dispelled many of the bad jokes about Italian products that I had heard throughout the years. They did first rate work that was on a par with any other country. Their food was also the best  I had anywhere else in the world. The borders of Italy and Switzerland join at the Alps mountains and it is possible (but challenging) to walk from Italy to Switzerland. 

david

The only Italian equipment I've ever owned is a Lapavoni Espresso machine. It's been serving me thousands of espressos and cappuccinos and it's a solid piece of machinery with very few problems over the years. Let's hope I will be equally satisfied with the Calypso tester :). 

[Rob]

If you want a tester, there's also the option to make your own.

[alexndr]

 

Got my Calypso last week. Feels like a solid piece of machinery. Thanks for your input.

[digginstony]

I've just ordered one of these testers. Looking on youtube how to use one. Says you have to remove the bracelet. This can be a real pain with solid endlinks. Do any of you guys leave the bracelet on and rig it somehow ?

 

Sent from my SM-G920F using Tapatalk

 

 

[clockboy]

I have that very machine & yes I always remove the bracelet because I guess it is a pain to dry if not removed. The only issue I have with the model I have is it only tests up to 6 bar which is not truly enough to test a diver watch.

[digginstony]

I have that very machine & yes I always remove the bracelet because I guess it is a pain to dry if not removed. The only issue I have with the model I have is it only tests up to 6 bar which is not truly enough to test a diver watch.

Looks like I'll have to take them off then [emoji16]

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[SSTEEL]

Bergeon 6767F is your friend.  I always remove bracelets/straps before WR testing.