ETA 2836-2 Service Walkthrough

[VWatchie]

17 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

But the balance staff is to be stuck in the pith wood with the epilam for the balance pivots.

I do not treat any parts of the balance assembly with epilame (except for the cap jewels and the chatons). I was wondering if treating the balance staff pivots wouldn't be beneficial and now I know how! Thanks! 

Again thanks for your input John, very useful, as always! 

[JohnR725]

7 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

I was wondering if treating the balance staff pivots wouldn't be beneficial and now I know how!

attaching the vintage Omega document something that I scanned in to a PDF. Even though it's vintage a lot of the cleaning is still valid. Lubrication choices are what I would recommend. Still an interesting document. Also interesting because now you know it exists when you look at all the service guides there is no reference almost a lubrication and definitely no reference to epilam and yet here's this document talking about epilam. It's back to my complaint of we don't get the complete picture which would have an influence on our choices of lubrication possibly.

632242668_OilingOmegawatches1957.PDF

[Jon]

On 5/28/2023 at 8:40 AM, VWatchie said:

"In ETA's documentation, the assembly of the movement begins with the keyless works, then the train of wheels and then the barrel bridge. The crucial problem with this arrangement is that it is physically impossible to mount the barrel bridge if the train of wheels is already mounted. It is also very fiddly and difficult to baste the end of the winding stem into the winding pinion hole because the hole for the winding stem in the main plate is both open and tapered and therefore does not hold the winding stem.

I totally agree! I never start with the keyless work, unless it's a quartz. And you are dead right when trying to fit the barrel bridge on a 2892 after the train bridge. Try is the operative word there! It is clearly a 'crock of' And why do ETA arbitrarily make up names for wheels. Calling a fourth wheel a 'seconds wheel' is ridiculous and confusing for some. Anyway, rant over... lol

Here's what Rolex want treated with epilame on their 3135

[mikepilk]

I'm currently working on an ETA 2879, and found the same fault I found on the last ETA movement I worked on. Kalle Slaap has mentioned this problem on Chronoglide and suggests it's an ETA  manufacturing fault. There is too much endshake on the intermediate wheel, which means that it can rub against the bottom of the barrel. I just push the top jewel down a touch.

Worth checking on ETA movements which have this arrangement.

Kalle shows it in a new video (at 57:22)

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by mikepilk

[Jon]

3 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I'm currently working on an ETA 2879, and found the same fault I found on the last ETA movement I worked on. Kalle Slaap has mentioned this problem on Chronoglide and suggests it's an ETA  manufacturing fault. There is too much endshake on the intermediate wheel, which means that it can rub against the bottom of the barrel. I just push the top jewel down a touch.

Worth checking on ETA movements which have this arrangement.

Great tip! I'll keep an eye out for that. I've come across jewels on Sellita SW500's that have been fitted upside down at factory, so nothing tends to surprise me anymore. I had a shockproof spring on a Rolex 2135 glued in place this week. No reason to do that, as it worked fine once it had been removed.

[VWatchie]

3 hours ago, mikepilk said:

Worth checking on ETA movements which have this arrangement.

Very valuable tip and this arrangement is common for many ETA movements! Thanks! 

3 hours ago, Jon said:

I've come across jewels on Sellita SW500's that have been fitted upside down at factory

3 hours ago, Jon said:

I had a shockproof spring on a Rolex 2135 glued in place this week.

Really goes to show you can't take anything for granted when working on watches.

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, Jon said:

I totally agree! I never start with the keyless work, unless it's a quartz.

for this particular watch or all watches?

[LittleWatchShop]

On 5/29/2023 at 5:03 AM, JohnR725 said:

attaching the vintage Omega document something that I scanned in to a PDF. Even though it's vintage a lot of the cleaning is still valid. Lubrication choices are what I would recommend. Still an interesting document. Also interesting because now you know it exists when you look at all the service guides there is no reference almost a lubrication and definitely no reference to epilam and yet here's this document talking about epilam. It's back to my complaint of we don't get the complete picture which would have an influence on our choices of lubrication possibly.

632242668_OilingOmegawatches1957.PDF 8.5 MB · 6 downloads

Great document.  Reminds me of everything I do wrong.  E.g., no epilame in my shop!!

[VWatchie]

1 hour ago, LittleWatchShop said:

E.g., no epilame in my shop!!

I wouldn't call it critical, I wouldn't say it improves performance, but I would suspect (and hope) epilame to prolong the service intervals.

Edited May 30, 2023 by VWatchie

[JohnR725]

5 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

Great document.  Reminds me of everything I do wrong.  E.g., no epilame in my shop!!

yes these vintage documents nice where they explained things versus today where there is slightly less explaining.

It also brings up a problem. The biggest problem is exists and how do we know it exists because I scanned it to a PDF you can see it exists but otherwise how would you know this exists? It's the annoyance I have with the watch companies where there's so much bonus as I will call it documentation that never sees the light of day just because it doesn't. Basically all the procedural stuff of how to do things. Then today it's even worse because they don't want to share with anybody even including people that have accounts with them

then epilam? Is it really needed in your shop maybe maybe not. its purpose is to keep the lubrication wherever it's been placed hopefully for the time in between servicing. Always bad for a variety of reasons if your lubrication is no longer doing its thing because it's typically spread away from wherever you placed it with the unfortunate problem of synthetic oils not getting sticky conceivably on a timing machine we may or may not see a problem with the lubrication. At least not until it's really bad and then it will be extremely bad

then do you really needed in your shop? If you look at the scanned document what are they using on the keyless and yes I know I should a photograph that page where I get all the lines to line up with their bottles. If I knew where I put the physical thing I'd rescan at least that part. But they're using something really thin on the keyless. Oh don't worry I had looked and they're using something heavier in a few years and now are all the way up to heavy oil? So basically with the oils that are using epilam will allow them to stay where there supposed to be. But what about if you used grease instead? Especially if you using some of the horological grease. for instance if you look at some of the horological greases we will see that it has thixotropic properties. In other words is a grease and stays were you wanted but on friction becomes more fluid. Wouldn't this be better for keyless works it will stay where it's needed then would you still need epilam for a grease perhaps?

then in the case of @LittleWatchShop I believe he is currently hoarding the world supply of Elgin oil. A oil that has a very interesting property and what I can tell much much better than the Swiss oils of it stays wherever you place it. So conceivably you don't need epilam because it's better at staying wherever you put it.

3 hours ago, VWatchie said:

I wouldn't call it critical, I wouldn't say it improves performance, but I would suspect (and hope) epilame to prolong the service intervals

so basically it isn't going to hurt anything isn't going to improve the quality of lubrication but it should hopefully guarantee that the lubrication stays wherever it's been placed in between servicing. As opposed to mysteriously disappearing like lubrication's sometimes do.

 

[Jon]

On 5/29/2023 at 6:26 PM, JohnR725 said:

for this particular watch or all watches?

Pretty much all mechanical watches

[DrHWO]

That’s an astonishing presentation. Clear, concise and complete. I doubt I shall ever be in you league, but I’m only 3 months into the hobby! 

[boogeez]

I just joined the forum. This is a great walkthrough. Thanks for making this.

[boogeez]

Hi.

Sorry for the oot in this thread. Please feel free to transfer it to the correct thread. I can't seem to remove the 2 screws holding the bridge. This will be the 1st time it will be removed. Any advice please? What scredriver size should I use? Thanks in advance.

Edited January 16 by boogeez

[mikepilk]

The slots have been distorted by over tightening.

You need a screwdriver with a head the same width as the slot. But as the slot is wide, you need to blunt the tip, so that it doesn't sit on the bottom of the slot. If it does it's likely to slip.

 

 

[boogeez]

1 hour ago, mikepilk said:

The slots have been distorted by over tightening.

You need a screwdriver with a head the same width as the slot. But as the slot is wide, you need to blunt the tip, so that it doesn't sit on the bottom of the slot. If it does it's likely to slip.

 

 

Thanks for the tip. Those Oris guys really want to make hobbyists sweat when working on the watch.  Also, am I correct to place the crown in position 1 when removing the bridge?

[mikepilk]

5 minutes ago, boogeez said:

Thanks for the tip. Those Oris guys really want to make hobbyists sweat when working on the watch.  Also, am I correct to place the crown in position 1 when removing the bridge?

It shouldn't make any difference when removing the auto bridge, and on disassembling.

But on these ETA movements, when assembling,  pull the crown out before removing the stem, or the yoke can slip out of the slot on the clutch. We've all been there: dial and hands on, remove the stem to case the movement, and then can't get the stem back in.  

I wrote a note on my service sheets to remind me!

 

ETA_2836-2.Asembly and Lube.pdf

[VWatchie]

10 hours ago, mikepilk said:

pull the crown out before removing the stem

To make sure, pull it out to the 2nd position/time-setting position.

Strangely enough, I’ve never personally experienced any issues with the ETA movements that have this design. I’ve probably just been lucky. I pull the crown with constant force and then gradually press the setting lever button until the stem comes out. So far, it has worked perfectly. That said, I don’t recommend it.

[Knebo]

12 hours ago, mikepilk said:

We've all been there: dial and hands on, remove the stem to case the movement, and then can't get the stem back

I once spent HOURS with this... 

But for me, it wasn't about the crown position (which I had pulled out as instructed), but that I used a pointy probe to depress the "button". That allowed me to push it down to far and dislodge the keyless works.

If one uses a screwdriver that fits the entire width of the slot (I believe it was the 1.2mm one), you are safe. 

 

 

1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

Strangely enough, I’ve never personally experienced any issues with the ETA movements that have this design.

Lucky you! 

Edited January 16 by Knebo

[Jon]

On 1/16/2025 at 10:39 AM, mikepilk said:

But on these ETA movements, when assembling,  pull the crown out before removing the stem, or the yoke can slip out of the slot on the clutch. We've all been there: dial and hands on, remove the stem to case the movement, and then can't get the stem back in.  

Yes, we certainly have been there. I was looking over a service manual for an ETA 2894-2 earlier and it has that stated to remove the stem in position 3

[VWatchie]

16 hours ago, VWatchie said:

To make sure, pull it out to the 2nd position/time-setting position.

1 hour ago, Jon said:

I was looking over a service manual for an ETA 2894-2 earlier and it has that stated to remove the stem in position 3

Being a C# (programming language) teacher I always count from 0 which makes no sense to non-programmers. So yes, position 3, i.e. the time-setting position.

1 hour ago, Jon said:

Yes, we certainly have been there.

Except for me, which almost feels like a miracle since I normally seem to experience everything that can go wrong, no matter how small the probability.

I don't use a screwdriver because I failed the first time I tried many years ago, and since then, I’ve been using a pointed object and have succeeded every time. Right now, I’m servicing my very first Sellita movement, the SW 200-1 housed in a 42mm Maurice Lacroix Aikon (beautiful watch). Let’s see if my luck holds out.

[Jon]

33 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

Let’s see if my luck holds out.

Oden must be smiling on you from his great hall

[VWatchie]

21 hours ago, Jon said:

Oden must be smiling on you from his great hall

Absolutely, and it shows with all desirable clarity that we, whose ancestors were Vikings, have enormous advantages over you Christian heathens 

Furthermore, I am old enough to be blessed with a Viking name (which no English speaker can pronounce) that means "son of heroes."

[boogeez]

Hi.

I still can't remove the 2 screws holding the automatic bridge. I bought better screwdrivers( bergeon 30081) but the tips of the screwdrivers just slip off. I tried from 0.8-1.4 but the screws still don't budge. Any advice? thanks in advance. 

Edited February 12 by boogeez

[Klassiker]

Use the widest screwdriver which doesn't overhang the ends of the screw slot. Stone the width of the taper so that it wedges deep into the slot without touching the bottom. Hold the screwdriver vertically, push down very firmly, and twist anticlockwise.

If you do the above, the tip will not slip.