Radium burn

[Graziano]

Here is a cool piece of history that I picked up. It's a ww2 military Elgin nos with the original crystal, check out the radium burn. The Watch stopped at 2.30. It works well. I will service it soon, it has a 594 movement. The original box and bag is displayed. 

Cheers Graziano 

[Michael1962]

Where do you find these things Graziano?

[Graziano]

9 hours ago, Michael1962 said:

Where do you find these things Graziano?

Hello Micheal1962, I picked this up from a gentleman who sells antique and vintage items out of Tasmania on ebay. I have a few of these ww2 Elgin pocket watches and this one is very interesting as it has the original box and crystal with the radium burn. That shows that it has sat somewhere for years and years in the box. Not very often you come across radium burn. Have a great day Micheal 

[JohnR725]

On 4/23/2021 at 3:25 PM, Graziano said:

Not very often you come across radium burn.

my understanding is the military radium products are very very bad compared to the civilian. Usually the watchmaking point of view you'll see radium burn on the dial I've never seen it on a crystal. The other place where I see it is the old hand assortments. Hands were mounted on a piece of paper and the radium hands if you move the hand you can see where burn the paper. This even came up the other day somebody asked about it I showed him the hands the radium hands you could see the paper was burned.

unfortunately for watch repair, you will see it as I said on dials occasionally the hand assortments if you're still on the paper occasionally. The problem watch repair is things like the hand assortments there's a brand-new hand assortments from whatever it doesn't have a date on it most people wouldn't know the radium unless you knew what to look for. Unless you have a Geiger counter you don't know that that nice assortment a hands that you bought some of them are radium. So unfortunately the radium stuff is still around unless you have a Geiger counter unless it burns the paper a dial or crystal he can't look at him and tell entirely. Then you only see the burn if it stays in one place long enough to burn something.

[Graziano]

19 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

my understanding is the military radium products are very very bad compared to the civilian. Usually the watchmaking point of view you'll see radium burn on the dial I've never seen it on a crystal. The other place where I see it is the old hand assortments. Hands were mounted on a piece of paper and the radium hands if you move the hand you can see where burn the paper. This even came up the other day somebody asked about it I showed him the hands the radium hands you could see the paper was burned.

unfortunately for watch repair, you will see it as I said on dials occasionally the hand assortments if you're still on the paper occasionally. The problem watch repair is things like the hand assortments there's a brand-new hand assortments from whatever it doesn't have a date on it most people wouldn't know the radium unless you knew what to look for. Unless you have a Geiger counter you don't know that that nice assortment a hands that you bought some of them are radium. So unfortunately the radium stuff is still around unless you have a Geiger counter unless it burns the paper a dial or crystal he can't look at him and tell entirely. Then you only see the burn if it stays in one place long enough to burn something.

Hi there John, a big variable here is that the age of radium burns isn't necessarily a function of the age of the watch, but rather of how long the watch has been stopped. And the materials that burn. The dial has damage as well as in the enamel shine of the black dial is gone from most of the dial. I quickly put the front cover back on because there was significant amounts of lume dust around. I will remove this when I service it. The Watch ran well when wound and kept spot on time for the day then I just let it wind down, I to have not seen crystal radium burn, but I am guessing that this watch looking at the case which is like new could have sat in the dark in its box for up to 60 years maybe. I will keep that crystal with the Watch as I think it is amazing for a collector. 

Cheers Graziano 

[HectorLooi]

So... how are you going to display this lovely piece of history?

A lead lined box with a thick piece of leaded glass?

[Graziano]

On 4/27/2021 at 11:42 AM, HectorLooi said:

So... how are you going to display this lovely piece of history?

A lead lined box with a thick piece of leaded glass?

Hi Hectorlooi, I haven't thought about that. Do you have any suggestions. And I should also display the crystal too don't you think? 

[HectorLooi]

I have no idea. For radiation safety, a box lined with lead foil would be advisable. But I'm not sure how thick the lead foil should be. In my xray room, the walls are lined with 1mm lead. 

Perhaps a medical equipment supplier dealing with xray equipment could advise you.

[JohnR725]

On 4/28/2021 at 2:03 AM, HectorLooi said:

For radiation safety, a box lined with lead foil would be advisable. But I'm not sure how thick the lead foil should be.

the problem with radiation is typically you don't see it. There are examples of people seeing the effect of radiation usually the outcome on the people were very bad.

really the best way to figure this out would be to find somebody with a Geiger counter preferably a sensitive one. Find out how much lead you need to isolate yourself from the radium. Unless of course you just isolate the item from you in the house or wherever you are. Then of course there is the other problem if you put it in your landline box you going to keep opening it up to look at it you might have to get some  lead glass and that's probably going be considerably thicker than the lead itself. They might just be better to have a picture of it someplace in and put the item somewhere else away from people.

then I have some pictures for you since you like pictures. The radium burn on the card that the hands are on isn't really that spectacular. Most people probably wouldn't even notice I just happen to know what it is. We also don't know how long they've been there we can guestimate when they last made hands with radium.

that I knew we had something lurking in the shop I found it. As we can see a nice watch I should've set the hands C Elledge burning was on the dial I didn't think about that did very clearly see the crystals when burned.

[Graziano]

On 4/29/2021 at 7:37 PM, JohnR725 said:

I knew we had something lurking in the shop I found it. As we can see a nice watch I should've set the hands C Elledge burning was on the dial I didn't think about that did very clearly see the crystals when burned.

Hi there John, probably a good idea for collectors and repair people of vintage watches to have a look through their collections or parts containers and remove radiation and place in a  contained storage  box before other damage is done to the young over time ,or your good watches that have been sitting next to it for years. 

[LittleWatchShop]

These have been in the watch bench for umpteen years.  Glass vials.  I don't see any indication of radium burn on the inside of the cover/lid.

[Graziano]

25 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

These have been in the watch bench for umpteen years.

Hi there LittleWatchShop they have got to sit there for 100 umpteen years

[JohnR725]

4 hours ago, Graziano said:

Hi there LittleWatchShop they have got to sit there for 100 umpteen years

100 years is a little on the long side. If I remember when I'm at work again I'll look at the watch we could probably come up with a date of when the watch was made that would give us a clue.

5 hours ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I don't see any indication of radium burn on the inside of the cover/lid.

we run into problems with the subject. For instance how strong is the radium it has a half-life of thousands the years so that's not the issue of the half-life but how strongly did they mix it up? If you looked at the hand I had that was on the paper it's barely burned at all. Versus burning the crystal in the examples but as a guess that radium is probably a much higher concentration. Radium hands in a glass vial there's not a lot to burn other than the paper around it but I'm guessing they're too far away.

[Graziano]

Hi all ,a new study from the good folks at the University of Northampton has shown that we all forgot one essential fact: radium decays to radioactive radon GAS, which is readily inhaled and will in sufficient doses significantly increase the risk of lung cancer. Radon is the second leading cause of lung cancer in the USA after cigarette smoking; the EPA estimates that radon is responsible for about 21,000 cancer deaths annually.  but it seems that logical steps to take might include considering ventilation issues, and investing in a radon detector for the room in which you keep your collection (radon monitors are inexpensive and recommended for most homeowners anyway).

Edited May 2, 2021 by Graziano

[JohnR725]

I had a little time just before I was leaving to look at the watch. I was going to see what the date was there's no date code on the back and the movement conveniently did not want to come out and I didn't really want to be handling it anyway.

what I found interesting was that the burning was only on the crystal? Usually in the past if I've seen a radium burn it would be on the dial itself. With a hands and stayed stationary for a long time. But in some ways another example of without the crystal you can't look at the watch itself and see if that's radium.

[Graziano]

47 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Usually in the past if I've seen a radium burn it would be on the dial itself

Did you know that at the time radium was the most valuable substance on Earth, selling for $120,000 for a single gram—$2.2 million at today's value ,just a bit of trivia.