Anyone come across this Rolex Submariner dial anomaly?

[s0nic2]

Hello all. My first post-introduction post on the forum, so please bear with me. But I wanted to reach out to this community as I am hoping that someone in the watch-repair realm has come across this anomaly.

I recently came across an interesting 1984 16800 Rolex Submariner with an 8.2 mil serial. At first glance everything seems to be in order. However, upon close examination the dial reveals something interesting ... it looks like it's been stamped/struck twice. Comparing the text font and other features, with the exception of the double stamping it looks to be a MKIV dial with all the right features. But the fact that it seems to have been overstamped certainly raises some questions.

I've posted about this issue on Rolex Forums, and there are two prevailing views there: (1) I've never seen this before and is therefore a fake, and (2) everything about the font/dial looks genuine and it is likely a factory error that got past QC.

In addition, I've reached out to several well-known watchmakers and all that have seen the pictures say that they see no indication of a counterfeit dial, though only one has said that he's heard of a double-strike dial in the past.

I also took the watch a local Rolex AD which has an on-site Rolex trained tech. His verdict, "there is nothing in this watch that would indicate that any part of it is not genuine." Particularly with respect to the dial, in his opinion the text looks correct, the spacing looks correct, the texture of the lume plots show the characteristic waffle pattern, the lume reacts to UV light as it should. Basically he's never seen anything like it but he also couldn't find anything that would make him believe that it's a refinish job and he thinks it likely got past QC without being noticed.

With all that, I am curious if anyone here has come across a Rolex dial like this. Am I holding a one-off fake or a one-off genuine?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Also, if anyone has any thoughts on where else I could go to get a more definitive answer, I'd love to hear those suggestions.


Thanks
 

Click on any of the pictures for higher resolution versions.

 

<a href="https://ibb.co/0qWhmT0"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/H7MnB6c/20210430-095820.jpg" alt="20210430-095820" border="0"></a>
<a href="https://ibb.co/SPH2Nkz"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/KXBY6tJ/20210430-095745.jpg" alt="20210430-095745" border="0"></a>
<a href="https://ibb.co/jyG1WS6"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/Lx62J3k/20210430-095544.jpg" alt="20210430-095544" border="0"></a>
<a href="https://ibb.co/wYnCVFw"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/DLBkhH8/20210430-095644.jpg" alt="20210430-095644" border="0"></a>
<a href="https://ibb.co/BBb7DC0"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/L1mqwZV/20210430-084134.jpg" alt="20210430-084134" border="0"></a>
<a href="https://ibb.co/w7xj3H9"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/9hCSzXF/20210430-084300.jpg" alt="20210430-084300" border="0"></a>
<a href="https://ibb.co/rs3MznY"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/m80t2Qk/20210430-084203.jpg" alt="20210430-084203" border="0"></a>

 

 

Edited May 3, 2021 by s0nic2

[clockboy]

14 minutes ago, s0nic2 said:

Hello all. My first post-introduction post on the forum, so please bear with me. But I wanted to reach out to this community as I am hoping that someone in the watch-repair realm has come across this anomaly.

I recently came across an interesting 1984 16800 Rolex Submariner with an 8.2 mil serial. At first glance everything seems to be in order. However, upon close examination the dial reveals something interesting ... it looks like it's been stamped/struck twice. Comparing the text font and other features, with the exception of the double stamping it looks to be a MKIV dial with all the right features. But the fact that it seems to have been overstamped certainly raises some questions.

I've posted about this issue on Rolex Forums, and there are two prevailing views there: (1) I've never seen this before and is therefore a fake, and (2) everything about the font/dial looks genuine and it is likely a factory error that got past QC.

In addition, I've reached out to several well-known watchmakers and all that have seen the pictures say that they see no indication of a counterfeit dial, though only one has said that he's heard of a double-strike dial in the past.

I also took the watch a local Rolex AD which has an on-site Rolex trained tech. His verdict, "there is nothing in this watch that would indicate that any part of it is not genuine." Particularly with respect to the dial, in his opinion the text looks correct, the spacing looks correct, the texture of the lume plots show the characteristic waffle pattern, the lume reacts to UV light as it should. Basically he's never seen anything like it but he also couldn't find anything that would make him believe that it's a refinish job and he thinks it likely got past QC without being noticed.

With all that, I am curious if anyone here has come across a Rolex dial like this. Am I holding a one-off fake or a one-off genuine?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Also, if anyone has any thoughts on where else I could go to get a more definitive answer, I'd love to hear those suggestions.


Thanks
 

Click on any of the pictures for higher resolution versions.

 

<a href="https://ibb.co/0qWhmT0"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/H7MnB6c/20210430-095820.jpg" alt="20210430-095820" border="0"></a>
<a href="https://ibb.co/SPH2Nkz"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/KXBY6tJ/20210430-095745.jpg" alt="20210430-095745" border="0"></a>
<a href="https://ibb.co/jyG1WS6"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/Lx62J3k/20210430-095544.jpg" alt="20210430-095544" border="0"></a>
<a href="https://ibb.co/wYnCVFw"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/DLBkhH8/20210430-095644.jpg" alt="20210430-095644" border="0"></a>
<a href="https://ibb.co/BBb7DC0"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/L1mqwZV/20210430-084134.jpg" alt="20210430-084134" border="0"></a>
<a href="https://ibb.co/w7xj3H9"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/9hCSzXF/20210430-084300.jpg" alt="20210430-084300" border="0"></a>
<a href="https://ibb.co/rs3MznY"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/m80t2Qk/20210430-084203.jpg" alt="20210430-084203" border="0"></a>

 

 

Sorry but the pics are not showing.

[s0nic2]

Looks like I was having issues with the pictures and now I can't edit the original post, so apologies for that.  Hopefully this works:

[clockboy]

Found this and it appears it is a rare Rolex.

https://www.craftandtailored.com/products/1984-rolex-submariner-ref-16800-transitional-model

 

[s0nic2]

4 minutes ago, clockboy said:

Found this and it appears it is a rare Rolex.

https://www.craftandtailored.com/products/1984-rolex-submariner-ref-16800-transitional-model

 

Oh I am well aware of the model that I have.  I am more curious about the double-strike on the dial and whether anyone here that works on watches may have come across something similar in their line of work.

[Wallace]

I wish I could help you but I find this very interesting. I hope it’s legit and it sounds like there’s a good chance it is But there is a guy who has a web article about vintage Rolex dials and how to spot fakes or legit anomalies and he may be able to help. I’ll try to copy the link but just in case it doesn’t work it’s called the Rolex passion report. I don’t know how to contact them but give it a shot.

https://rolexpassionreport.com/21770/the-importance-of-the-vintage-rolex-dial/