3D printed RS mainspring winder project for hobbyists

[Zedster]

On 2/14/2024 at 10:14 PM, AndyShap said:

You are referring to the winder base, which can be printed to fit 1.5mm, 2.0mm, 2.5mm or 3.0mm arbors.  The large center hole is to insert the arbor.  The four surrounding holes are to insert the arbor hook (staple). All four holes are the same depth. Each hole is a slightly different distance away from the arbor.  You would choose which hole based on best fit for your mainspring.

Hi, Andy

Thanks for your reply. My main confusion was that one of the four holes is a lot bigger than the other three and beaks through to the arbor hole. I can see from various videos they use one of the smaller hole to align the staple pin so I was a little confused about what the big hole was for as its appearance is a lot different to the other three holes

Regards

Z

[markr]

On 2/14/2024 at 5:59 PM, rossjackson01 said:

Just so not fair. No access to a 3D printer. Back to hand installing for mainsprings.

Maybe someone with a 3d printer can use it to print you a 3d printer.

[SpringMangler]

What I find the 3D housing, plunger and setting bowl really useful for is changing the spring orientation. I have a set of Bergeon right hand winders but don't want to pay almost £40 a pop per left hand arbor. I've tried reversing springs by using an empty mainspring ring but 9 times out of 10 I end up with a jack in the box and lots of swearing

The 9.5, 10 and 11mm 3D housings fit my number 6 and 7 winders and make changing the spring direction a doddle and for strange barrel sizes you can always scale the print.

Not had a 3D printer for long but it's a fantastic tool, especially if you put the effort into learning a CAD program and designing your own parts.

 

[GPrideaux]

Has anyone tried printing these in resin? I only have a resin printer ...

Regular 3D printing resin might be a bit brittle, but I have some Monocure Tensile resin I thought I'd try. I can't think why it wouldn't work.

[Zero]

On 8/25/2024 at 1:14 PM, GPrideaux said:

Has anyone tried printing these in resin? I only have a resin printer ...

Regular 3D printing resin might be a bit brittle, but I have some Monocure Tensile resin I thought I'd try. I can't think why it wouldn't work.

There were some who did try this in the past, and it seemed to work just fine. You should give it a go.

[AndyGSi]

Last time I needed an oddball winder for a Bulova I just made one from brass tube and used an arbor from my set.

 

[GPrideaux]

On 9/14/2024 at 9:39 PM, Zero said:

There were some who did try this in the past, and it seemed to work just fine. You should give it a go.

I've done a couple now: one 5.5mm (custom size) and one 14.0mm. They work fine.

I had previously made one from brass tube with a 3D-printed plunger for a tiny ladies watch (Seiko Rainbow with cal 1104A movement) with a 6mm diameter barrel that was too small for any of the winders in my cheap Chinese set, using an arbor from the set, but when I was trying to coax the tail into the tube it caught on the edge of the cutout and broke off. The RS winder was more successful. It may just be that it was easier to hold than the 5.5mm tubing so I had more control. I'm not sure. By the time I had received a donor movement for that watch (which was needed for multiple parts) I had made a suitable RS winder and had no problems with it.

[AndyGSi]

@GPrideaux The one I made above was also 5.5mm for a Bulova and wasn't easy to work with but did the job.

[Zero]

On 9/20/2024 at 1:45 PM, GPrideaux said:

I've done a couple now: one 5.5mm (custom size) and one 14.0mm. They work fine.

Nice. Could you comment on the expected lifespan of the resin body part? As in wear and tear. I am considering adding the material to the project README.

On 9/20/2024 at 1:45 PM, GPrideaux said:

I had previously made one from brass tube with a 3D-printed plunger for a tiny ladies watch (Seiko Rainbow with cal 1104A movement) with a 6mm diameter barrel that was too small for any of the winders in my cheap Chinese set, using an arbor from the set, but when I was trying to coax the tail into the tube it caught on the edge of the cutout and broke off.

This is a common mistake when rolling your own winding tubes, happens even when using the Bergeon set. It is just part of the journey. Even if you managed to get the tail in, it will tend to get stuck between the plunger and the barrel walls, especially for tiny movements. This wont happen with the RS winder as the plunger has a special toothed design to prevent this.

On 9/20/2024 at 1:45 PM, GPrideaux said:

The RS winder was more successful. It may just be that it was easier to hold than the 5.5mm tubing so I had more control. I'm not sure. By the time I had received a donor movement for that watch (which was needed for multiple parts) I had made a suitable RS winder and had no problems with it.

From a design perspective, I can share a few reasons:
- There is a nicely angled entrance on the RS winder to help facilitate this tail coaxing activity.
- Plastic is slippery thanks to a low frictional coefficient vs metals, plus all the parts are fat/thick. Hard for the mainspring to snag on anything.
- 3D printed parts dimensions are super accurate, so the the mainspring's fully wound tension is within its operational limits, allowing you more wiggle room when coaxing the tail in. Assuming you followed the size selection guide, of course.

[Simeon]

On 2/15/2024 at 11:10 AM, AndyShap said:

As a reminder, I sell these. High quality prints, lots of extra's. You can see them at the following links:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125428348675
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125578735361?var=426616873070

 

Feel free to contact me with any questions.

Hey Andy, do you sell just the 'small' set of winders? Not convinced I would use any of the larger size.

[GPrideaux]

On 9/22/2024 at 7:32 PM, Zero said:

Nice. Could you comment on the expected lifespan of the resin body part? As in wear and tear. I am considering adding the material to the project README.

To date I've made three: 14.0, 9.0 and a custom 5.5mm. I initially printed directly onto the build plate, but I had difficulty getting the larger winders off the plate and broke some so I've ended up angling them by 5 degrees and printing with supports (which is why the two larger winders look stripey ... 50 micron layers at 5 degrees gives roughly half millimeter stripes). I printed the 5.5 first and used it once for practice on the broken spring before using it on the replacement, and I've used the 14.0 just once, I think. I printed the 9.0 yesterday and used it twice today (for the same spring ... I didn't notice that the tail was sitting in one of the slots and didn't position it properly in the barrel before pushing it out of the winder ... sproing -- glad I was wearing eye protection!). The spring scrapes the resin a little and I clean the spring before and after pushing it into the barrel (so I get both sides) with some Rodico. There is a little 'polishing' where resin rubs against resin but otherwise the winders look almost untouched and look like they could easily do dozens of springs.

These were printed using Monocure Tensile (https://monocure3d.com.au/product/tensile-industrial-strength-resin/) but the pieces are so 'chunky' that I don't think the brittleness of regular modelling resin is likely to be a problem.

[AndyShap]

On 9/24/2024 at 7:55 PM, Simeon said:

Hey Andy, do you sell just the 'small' set of winders? Not convinced I would use any of the larger size.

No, I don't. I've set up the "complete set" to have lots of extra's. So, it is only sold as a full set. Still an affordable price!

[MRxNOON]

Any chance someone could make the plunger and barrel stl files for 6.5mm nad 6.0mm ?  Ive messed around with trying to run the freecad script but its not working for me and im not interested in trying to figure it out anymore.  I would be happy to "buy a coffee" for these 4 stl files

[GPrideaux]

2 hours ago, MRxNOON said:

Any chance someone could make the plunger and barrel stl files for 6.5mm nad 6.0mm ?  Ive messed around with trying to run the freecad script but its not working for me and im not interested in trying to figure it out anymore.  I would be happy to "buy a coffee" for these 4 stl files

Here you go.

6.0: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/gmw2oajp90cqg6rjgpqvf/ABjP2kUyq3uoIRF_bhv67XA?rlkey=hje4j5h4l9ygmq9bg5mzt25wb&st=uyqortxw&dl=0

6.5: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/n2wcxy4iz1zholmpfwfx9/AG4BdCZIVCluwEpOySHLoRY?rlkey=md621fslbute05og5aykqwwo9&st=pl36794o&dl=0

and for good measure, here's one I made earlier,

5.5: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fo/pjd7frxzcbe99ga96t4k0/ABgpEeXL3yF4nokmIqB4yk8?rlkey=jvdp4rhmi0hap8gxtdbj7x1zu&st=4voiirfc&dl=0

(I have used the 5.5 so I know it's ok.)

I've done a couple of manual wind springs and feel I have a pretty good handle on winding them now, but I'm not having much success with automatic springs. In my first attempt, I had started to feed the bridle into the winder then when I was trying to wind it in, the arbor end broke (first pic below). Today trying another spring, when trying to 'encourage' the bridle into the winder I realised it was coming out one of the pusher holes ... the whole tail and bridle had snapped (second pic). Just now on a third practice spring I thought I had wound it successfully. I started the bridle in the winder then wound it in before gently releasing the tension. It looked good in the winder so I did the transfer to the barrel. I'd checked that the barrel was flush with the winder housing, then pushed the spring home, checking again that the plunger had come all the way down to the barrel, but as soon as I took the winder away the spring jumped out ... in two pieces, with the tail again broken off at the beginning of the bridle.

I'm rapidly running out of automatic springs I can practice on. These springs were probably all 20+ years old, and the first two might be closer to 40 or 50 so it's possible that it was their time to break anyway, but if it's me, I want to work out what I might be doing wrong. Once the bridle is in position, should I just let the winder pull it in, or should I give it a push as well? The first one I tried to just pull in but it broke at the arbor. The second one I tried to give the bridle a push at the same time as winding to try to ease the pressure on the arbor, but ended up shearing off the tail. I don't know what the story was with the third, whether it was already broken when I tried to transfer it to the barrel, or if it broke as it flew out. Any suggestions?

[GPrideaux]

Follow-up: I've been practicing with another spring from a donor movement and I think I've sussed what's happening.

My first failure may have been because I hadn't started the bridle properly. It wants to go in around the spring in the barrel rather than alongside, and that may be why the arbor end failed before it wound in.

My second failure may be because I was pushing instead of letting the spring draw the tail and bridle in.

My third failure I think I have been able to reproduce a little less destructively. The end of the spring is not being pushed out but catching between the housing and the plunger. I repeated the process, taking photos at each step to be sure. Below is the pic just after plunging into the barrel but before pulling the winder away. After plunging, however, when I lifted the winder away the barrel lifted away with it ... something was caught. Gently easing the barrel away revealed that the end of the spring was not in the barrel (second pic). I walked the spring out of the barrel and did the winding process again. This time I took a pic of the spring in the winder after using the bowl setter (third pic). Here you can see the very end of the spring, left, has not been properly set for positioning into the barrel.

I think the fix is to re-print the plungers with a snugger fit to the housing.

Has nobody else experienced this?

[AndyShap]

11 hours ago, MRxNOON said:

Any chance someone could make the plunger and barrel stl files for 6.5mm nad 6.0mm ?  Ive messed around with trying to run the freecad script but its not working for me and im not interested in trying to figure it out anymore.  I would be happy to "buy a coffee" for these 4 stl files

 

Edited September 28, 2024 by AndyShap

[Zero]

I have had another user report issues when using UV cured resin printed winders instead of the usual PLA/PLA+ material.

• The root cause seems to be that UV cured resins are rubbery or more "grippy" as compared to the slippery surface of PLA/PLA+/Nylon printed winders. This causes an undesirably higher amount of friction between the mainspring and winder parts while winding, leading to failure and breakage.
• Another issue with resin materials is that they seem to vary quite a bit between manufacturers, I'm having a hard time pinpointing the exact frictional coefficient numbers (vs steel). There are tough resins, flexible resins, specialty resins, etc, too many to keep up with. Maybe someone can help me with this.

One of the advantages of RS winders is the very low friction when using PLA/PLA+ (vs steel). That advantage is gone when a rubber-like resin material is used.

So as of now, I will no longer recommend using UV cured resin for building these winders. Users should be prepared to deal with it accordingly if going with resin, eg. using lubrication.

PLA/PLA+ materials will remain the default recommendation and optimal way to build the RS mainspring winders. I have updated the README to reflect this.

Edited March 30 by Zero