Gears and wheels with more than one kind of pivot available

[ifibrin]

While attempting to polish the pivots on the fourth wheel of my eta 7001, I inadvertently broke off the extended seconds hand, so I ended up having to order a new fourth wheel from cousinsuk.

Interestingly, the 3rd wheel, 4th wheel, and escape wheels listed on cousinsuk for the eta 7001 have more than one kind, with some having straight pivots, or conical pivots. Now, the original pivots on the original eta 7001 I had were all straight pivots for the 3rd wheel, fourth wheel, and escape wheel, but I was wondering are the ones with conical pivots interchangeable?

[nickelsilver]

The wheels with conical pivots would only work if there are cap jewels.

[ifibrin]

38 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

The wheels with conical pivots would only work if there are cap jewels.

That’s what I would have thought as well but I have never seen any eta 7001 or indeed any movement with cap jewels for the 3rd, 4th or escape wheel.

[jdm]

4 hours ago, ifibrin said:

 have never seen any eta 7001 or indeed any movement with cap jewels for the 3rd, 4th or escape wheel.

Seiko, even of the most basic, has caps and anti-shock on upper 3rd and escape wheels.

[LittleWatchShop]

A little off topic...but I have wondered why the wheels in watches are not called gears.  I think the reason is that watch wheels interface to one another from gear to pinion rather than gear to gear.  And, watch wheels are not solid as are gears.

That is my SWAG anyway.  I am sure someone on here knows for sure.

[jdm]

36 minutes ago, LittleWatchShop said:

I have wondered why the wheels in watches are not called gears. 

Nor cogs for that matter. In fact, gear is a broader term which can be applied to any machinery or equipment, however with time it become almost completely reduced to indicate toothed wheels.

[watchweasol]

Hi You have had the advise , I have attaced the tech sheet incase you dont have it.   cheers

 

30_ETA7001.pdf

[JohnR725]

I'm attaching an image that shows the problem. while specifically there showing a escape wheel the same problem can show up with other components of the watch. Not just unique to the escape wheel. Then yes you really can have both sometimes they will put a conical pivot on one side that is visible and a regular pivot on the other side just because are cheap.

then you get things like the watches that want to look impressive with lots of jewels  typically end stones that have no function at all. As the run top of a standard jewel the standard straight pivots on the wheel. But they can proudly print on the watch plate that it's a 21 jewel watch.

[ifibrin]

8 hours ago, jdm said:

Seiko, even of the most basic, has caps and anti-shock on upper 3rd and escape wheels.

Wow that’s really quite interesting. You learn something new everyday!

[ifibrin]

7 hours ago, watchweasol said:

Hi You have had the advise , I have attaced the tech sheet incase you dont have it.   cheers

 

30_ETA7001.pdf 1.12 MB · 2 downloads

The technical document doesn’t seem to reference the variants with conical pivots for the 3rd, 4th or escape wheel. Do you think those variants are rare models of the 7001 customized for some manufacturers? I can’t find any mention of such variants anywhere for the 7001 with conical pivots in those wheels.

[watchweasol]

Hi A lot depends on the ages of the watches and manufacturing procedures. I would not say it was impossible for two watches of the same family being different as during production it may have been found that the pivots were changed as they found they were better and gave better service. A manufacturing process is fluid and changes take place for a variety of reasons like increased reliability, increased accuracy etc.

[JohnR725]

if you do a search on this discussion group will discuss this movement before. I know that because in looking it up now all the links or a lot of them that talk about the movement I've already looked at because somebody in the past must've asked about so it's been discussed before on this group.

So first four links all the same watch and they're all 17 jewel watch usually if you start having things like conical pivots in need a end stone which is usually made out of Sapphire and that increases you drool count none of the watches below or above 17 jewels?

the fifth link is interesting in that the escape wheel comes as either straight shoulder or conical. the fourth wheel does come in two types normal and one with a longer pivot for a small secondhand.

then looking at bestfit online escape wheel two different pivots hypes,fourth wheel with and without small secondhand and third wheel only listed as one type is the same as what I had at the link below?

then three different age technical communications all say 17 jewels. Then the manufacturing information sheet which of course is 17 jewels and list this is only having one grade which is top.

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&ETA_7001

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Dugena_3807

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Girard-Perregaux_101

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&0&2uswk&Peseux_7001

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=ETA_7001