Identifying a (very old) vintage movement

[Rafael]

Hi Everyone! 

By any chance anyone recognizes this movement? 
The dial is branded “Borel Fils” but the movement is not branded or marked with any name or number except for a serial (already disassembled it so I checked closely). Should be Swiss and dated late 1800 / early 1900.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. 
I’m in dire need for some replacement parts which were corroded by rust so I hope by identifying it I will manage to locate a donor movement or any other lead.

Edited July 17, 2021 by Rafael
Typo

[KarlvonKoln]

If that's a Swiss ébauche movement, which seems probable from what little I can see, it could be an FHF (Fontainemelon) or A. Schild, or a Minerva or a number of ones allied with ETA.  See if you can spot a logo hiding below a bridge somewhere; there may be none but it's worth careful inspection. 

Also: could you post the size please?  And perhaps some photos of dial and hands?  Maybe a closeup of the pallet lever too?  And what kind of case is it in?  I saw the hinged back cover, but I also see lugs on the sides; if from late 1800s to early 1900s, it was made before wrist watches, so I am wondering if it was re-cased.

Edited July 18, 2021 by KarlvonKoln

[HectorLooi]

I'm curious. Why did the Swiss manufacturers used "FAST/SLOW" on the balance cock instead of something in  French, German or Italian?

[KarlvonKoln]

Just now, HectorLooi said:

I'm curious. Why did the Swiss manufacturers used "FAST/SLOW" on the balance cock instead of something in  French, German or Italian?

I wondered about that too.  On a foreign watch, I usually see "Avance" and "Retard".  Made for the British or American market perhaps?

[oldhippy]

6 hours ago, KarlvonKoln said:

I wondered about that too.  On a foreign watch, I usually see "Avance" and "Retard".  Made for the British or American market perhaps?

That is correct. 

[Rafael]

7 hours ago, KarlvonKoln said:

If that's a Swiss ébauche movement, which seems probable from what little I can see, it could be an FHF (Fontainemelon) or A. Schild, or a Minerva or a number of ones allied with ETA.  See if you can spot a logo hiding below a bridge somewhere; there may be none but it's worth careful inspection. 

Also: could you post the size please?  And perhaps some photos of dial and hands?  Maybe a closeup of the pallet lever too?  And what kind of case is it in?  I saw the hinged back cover, but I also see lugs on the sides; if from late 1800s to early 1900s, it was made before wrist watches, so I am wondering if it was re-cased.

Hi, thanks! I’m attaching a few more pictures. Movement diameter is ~25mm so probably 11 lignes.

[Nucejoe]

Have you tried Dr ranffts database to trace the caliber down by its keyless. 

 

 

[Rafael]

39 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Have you tried Dr ranffts database to trace the caliber down by its keyless. 

 

 

Nope. Even if I wanted to, I don’t think I know how 

[oldhippy]

What Ligne size is the movement? The diameter measure across from 9 to 3 or 12 to 6. I can have a look in the Bestfit catalogue.

[Rafael]

33 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

What Ligne size is the movement? The diameter measure across from 9 to 3 or 12 to 6. I can have a look in the Bestfit catalogue.

Thanks oldhippy! 11 lignes.

[oldhippy]

Sorry no luck with the Bestfit, so I looked in an old Flume catalogue from 1954 nothing in that.  

[Rafael]

6 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Have you tried Dr ranffts database to trace the caliber down by its keyless. 

 

 

After fiddling about with Dr Ranffts website, I did the database search based on specific characteristics. No luck as well, didn't find one that is even close and I basically went through like 300 movements (and this is after I searched Bestfit catalogue 1+2). 

 

Well, I guess unless there's a miracle and someone will magically identify it, I'll have to start thinking of how to sort generic parts and hope that it will fit   

Edited July 18, 2021 by Rafael