ST 69 balance.

[ElioBD13]

Hi all! 

finally my first project has become the tiny Mondaine mentioned here..

Even if it is very tiny (the movement is a ST 69) it is a very simple movement and I felt ready to give it a try.

The watch wasn't running, even if the mainspring was fully wond. The time setting was very hard: the hands will not move forewar but for half an hour, but moving the hands counter clockwise they just work fine.

Opening the movement, the first thing I noticed was the balance wheel resting on the mainplate. Pivot broken.

Hour wheel was stuck, I had to slip a screwdriver under the hour wheel to remove it.

The pallet fork have a damaged stone.

The rest of the movement seems ok.

Here's my question: do someone here have pieces for the ST 69 movement or knows where I can find it? Everithing I find online is for the FHF 69 or 69N, and both have incabloc system that the ST69 does not have.

Could someone help me? 

Edited August 23, 2021 by ElioBD13
Add some photos

[jdm]

41 minutes ago, ElioBD13 said:

Even if it is very tiny (the movement is a ST 69) it is a very simple movement and I felt ready to give it a try.

For an absolute beginner starting with a lady (or expensive, or sentimental unique) movement is a mistake, unfortunately quite common, and a show of hubris. There are skills that need to be developed first the easy way, that for the best changes of of success, which in turn build sell confidence.

 

41 minutes ago, ElioBD13 said:

Pivot broken.

The "professional" way to repair this is replacing the balance staff. There is a site that specialize in that https://www.balancestaffs.com/product.php

 

41 minutes ago, ElioBD13 said:

The pallet fork have a damaged stone.

Which in lack of ready part may be replaced, although that's not t an easy task.

 

41 minutes ago, ElioBD13 said:

Do someone here have pieces for the ST 69 movement or knows where I can find it?

There is no secret place for parts. Anyone does the same Internet searches with the same results. Have a read to the topic below 

 

[ElioBD13]

22 minutes ago, jdm said:

For a beginner, starting with a lady (or expensive, or sentimental unique) movement is a mistake, unfortunately quite common, and a show of hubris.

Well, it has been a conscious decision, knowing the downsides, but I had my reasons to go for it.

 

24 minutes ago, jdm said:

The "professional" way to repair this is replacing the balance staff. There is a site that specialize in that https://www.balancestaffs.com/product.php

Thanks I didn't know this website.

26 minutes ago, jdm said:

42 minutes ago, ElioBD13 said:

 

There is no secret place for parts. Anyone does the same Internet searches with the same results. Have a read to the topic below 

For sure I will. 

As always thanks a lot JDM.

Cheers.

[Nucejoe]

 I rekon replacing balance staff is not an option at this time as it requires staking set and the skills to use it plus at least a static poising of the balance, so a balance complete is your best bet, furthuremore those other broken parts makes a scrap movement more suitable.

 Go to balancestaffs.com to compare staff  on ST69 and FHF 69N, see the dimensions  on the two staffs and what difference they have, incab and no shock end stones are likely to interchange just fine. You are overly concerned with two different setting, I think  incab fits no shock.

[canthus]

Not many people want to mess with low value ladies movements, so there are normally plenty on the bay for spares or simple replacement.  This could be the route for balance, pallet etc if you don't have tools and/or skills.

This size and shape are commonly used in ladies watches and another make or caliber may well easily fit in the back/case without modification, especially if the dial and hand are included (as these may be different to yours. 

Ladies movements are indeed challenging because everything is so small.  Extreme care is needed with the balance spring as they are very easily damaged just be handling (avoid dangling if possible!).  Extra delicacy is needed when assembling the wheels as the pivots are so tiny.

I agree starting with these small movements is not the best way to take up the hobby, but the up side is that when you have done a few and then do larger calibers/pocket watches they are massive!!!

Edited August 24, 2021 by canthus

[ElioBD13]

16 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

 I rekon replacing balance staff is not an option at this time as it requires staking set and the skills to use it plus at least a static poising of the balance, so a balance complete is your best bet, furthuremore those other broken parts makes a scrap movement more suitable.

 Go to balancestaffs.com to compare staff  on ST69 and FHF 69N, see the dimensions  on the two staffs and what difference they have, incab and no shock end stones are likely to interchange just fine. You are overly concerned with two different setting, I think  incab fits no shock.

Yes, I think that is not an option to replace the balance staff. Not at this stage of my journey.

I will try to check what you are saying..I thought as well to try to buy an FHF 69N and see if I can switch the stones, just to mess it up a bit more.

4 hours ago, canthus said:

Ladies movements are indeed challenging because everything is so small.  Extreme care is needed with the balance spring as they are very easily damaged just be handling (avoid dangling if possible!).  Extra delicacy is needed when assembling the wheels as the pivots are so tiny.

I agree starting with these small movements is not the best way to take up the hobby, but the up side is that when you have done a few and then do larger calibers/pocket watches they are massive!!!

I know, and that is why I wasn't sure to start with it. But at the end, extra care is not going to be a problem and as you say once I did this the other will look massive.

There is surele another down side working on this movement: many of my tools are just useless. But I'm going to think at this as a good excuse to burn some money on other tools

Thanks guys, it is a pleasure to have you on the other side of this display.

[HectorLooi]

What you have appears to be a very common movement during it's time. A couple of years back, I bought a bunch of scrap ladies watch movements off eBay and among the 100 odd movements, this particular movement made up like 15% of the lot. 

From this pile of scrap watches, I managed to find a balance that fitted a watch that I was working on, without any modifications whatsoever.

Here is a photo of some of the movements similar to your ST 69. Every single one is from a different company. ( Maybe OEM already existed in those days.)

[ElioBD13]

5 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

Here is a photo of some of the movements similar to your ST 69. Every single one is from a different company. ( Maybe OEM already existed in those days.)

=D Well they're all very similar but slightly different! For example you have 3 without incabloc system but all of them have weights on the balance wheel. Mine doesn't. 2 of them have the possibility of remove the jewel on the escape wheel..anyone knows how is that called? 

Surely it is very interesting