Jump to content

Omega 1012 Movement Spares


Moose

Recommended Posts

Hello All.

I have an Omega 1012 movement with a damaged Date Corrector Yoke (Part 1568). I think it is a common fault, where one or more of the small teeth get damaged on the hour corrector pinion. You can see the missing tooth in the microscope shot below. The other photo is of the complete part, for reference.

Cousins are showing a spare part for this, but they list it as being for a 1010 movement. The parts list for a 1012 seems to hint that part 1568 is "different for cal 1010 and 1020".

Would anyone know if the Cousins part can be used or not? I am reluctant to purchase as its an expensive part (£56.16) if I can't use it.

 

IMG_0736.jpeg

Screenshot 2021-08-24 at 14.49.32.png

Edited by Moose
Clarity
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Moose said:

Cousins are showing a spare part for this, but they list it as being for a 1010 movement. The parts list for a 1012 seems to hint that part 1568 is "different for cal 1010 and 1020".

The Technical guide suggests it's a different part too. Hope these sheets are of use to you, I've inserted them in order (the first picture is a close up of page 2):

IMG_20210824_170842.thumb.jpg.a530586d99936a6d1010fbbafd13b3ca.jpgIMG_20210824_170858.thumb.jpg.d9092e3c8f03706f14d915f03bf1a81e.jpgIMG_20210824_170907.thumb.jpg.3c31fc47fe2799e162e1836aba19a866.jpgIMG_20210824_170912.thumb.jpg.f5060f6df0a5c86348702c1e1e25d82f.jpgIMG_20210824_170920.thumb.jpg.6041b9c314e28e8d4eeda7fa618fdf49.jpgIMG_20210824_170924.thumb.jpg.56edd9727f7adfd0e39e810e0d0d69e3.jpgIMG_20210824_170931.thumb.jpg.d054b429701c5bfa91541307ed317305.jpgIMG_20210824_170934.thumb.jpg.a1b7d47107e119a5df540e2d96f71bf5.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have an idea, that the part is different depending if you have a day/date movement (1020) or just a date only version (1010, 1012)?

As far as I can see looking at the technical docs, one has two "star" pinions on the upper part, for manual correction of both day and date, whereas the other version of 1568 has only a single "star" pinion to correct date only.

I'm wondering if the rather 'cryptic' technical note is meant to mean that the 1010 version (date only) is different to the 1020 version (day/date)? 

That would seem to make sense because the 1010 and the 1012 are virtually identical apart for a couple of other parts, not related to day/date correction.

This is the 1568 version from the 1020 and up versions, clearly with two correctors.

Screenshot 2021-08-24 at 17.48.48.png

Edited by Moose
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Moose said:

Shame. I was looking at that and got outbid at the last minute.

Because serious buyers most often use snipe bidding. So if it's important, one must commit to bid (better if by sniping) the actual maximum that he's willing to pay.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've ended up with a couple of these 10xx series movements for spares - but not your part unfortunately. Prices for some of the new parts do seem excessive, but I guess the suppliers aren't getting and new parts in stock.

In my small collection of Omega (7) I have 4xx, 5xx and 6xx series movements which I think are more robust than the 70s 10xx movements. They just seem a bit fragile to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

if you go to cousins and download the 1012 parts list you will see that it only lists the parts unique to that. The part you seek is not on this list and it refers you back to the 1010.

then if you go to the 1020 list you get the same thing it lists the different parts and your setting part is here indicating it is different then the 1010.

 

then I find looking at lots of references is helpful like this one.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=OME_1012

then click on the part and get this one.

http://cgi.julesborel.com/cgi-bin/matcgi2?ref=e[aK`E

you get the cross reference and you get this part number  72210101568.  so if you look carefully you can see the base caliber here 1010 and your part number 1568. Plus of course you get all the watches across references to which is not the 1020.

On 8/24/2021 at 6:49 AM, Moose said:

1012 movement with a damaged Date Corrector Yoke (Part 1568). I think it is a common fault

probably a common fault because people are not lubricating correctly.

One of the problems with some watch companies is a scatter their technical information across lots of different documents. So lubrication oftentimes isn't covered because that's in the lubrication guide. Or they'll have guides for groupings a calibers with similar things. For instance the image attached you will note common lubrication for both the 1012 at 1020 but notice part numbers are different. Exactly what the links above show.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Omega 1012 lubrication.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

or instance the image attached you will note common lubrication for both the 1012 at 1020 but notice part numbers are different. Exactly what the links above show.

Omega 1012 lubrication.JPG

Very helpful information, many thanks.

I have ordered the part from Cousins now, so this info is essential to me refitting it correctly lubricated. And you are right, there is no lubrication info anywhere about this in the 10xx parts lists I have seen thus far. In this case, I would just normally just follow the basic rules, generic to most movements.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 years later...
3 hours ago, USMANIJAZ said:

JohnR725 Can you share the complete document for servicing the 1010 movement?

I'm attaching the service guide and a parts list.

Then if you referring to the colorful images that look like a service guide but are not. Omega went and consolidated common issues into some general working instructions but they have an issue so you don't get the have them. For instance I have a link below for a  for a specific search on the cousins documentation site. All sorts of interesting things that you may want to download

https://www.cousinsuk.com/document/search?SearchString=Working

Then if you download the Omega documents for which to nice impressive list except that just a tiny fraction of what Omega has. In a case if you download the document look carefully at the corners of each of the pages do you see something like this?

image.png.114ba515787cf764225e489944cf2d97.png

So we know exactly who downloaded the document their contact information and an exact date and time. Swatch group is very paranoid over who downloads or documents and of course cousins no longer has access the Swatch group. So if you did have access to somebody who had access the Swatch group it would not be in your best interest to post those documents publicly but some kind soul might snip images out. Then as far as servicing information only one attached is what's existence watch companies usually assume that people know how to service watches except for common things that require special instructions which is why even modern Swatch group or Omega doesn't actually have service guides the you have parts list or the general instructions that covers several calibers of special problems or things

 

418_Omega 1010New19-10-12.pdf 1001750927_Omega_Omega 1010 1011 1012 1020 1021 1022 1972.pdf

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

I'm attaching the service guide and a parts list.

Then if you referring to the colorful images that look like a service guide but are not. Omega went and consolidated common issues into some general working instructions but they have an issue so you don't get the have them. For instance I have a link below for a  for a specific search on the cousins documentation site. All sorts of interesting things that you may want to download

https://www.cousinsuk.com/document/search?SearchString=Working

Then if you download the Omega documents for which to nice impressive list except that just a tiny fraction of what Omega has. In a case if you download the document look carefully at the corners of each of the pages do you see something like this?

image.png.114ba515787cf764225e489944cf2d97.png

So we know exactly who downloaded the document their contact information and an exact date and time. Swatch group is very paranoid over who downloads or documents and of course cousins no longer has access the Swatch group. So if you did have access to somebody who had access the Swatch group it would not be in your best interest to post those documents publicly but some kind soul might snip images out. Then as far as servicing information only one attached is what's existence watch companies usually assume that people know how to service watches except for common things that require special instructions which is why even modern Swatch group or Omega doesn't actually have service guides the you have parts list or the general instructions that covers several calibers of special problems or things

 

418_Omega 1010New19-10-12.pdf 1.19 MB · 3 downloads 1001750927_Omega_Omega 1010 1011 1012 1020 1021 1022 1972.pdf 425.37 kB · 3 downloads

thanks. Appreciated for information. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • I suspected that might be the cause but I’m definitely still a newbie and it’s good to get some confirmation. I’ll have to look for a donor and see whether I can address it that way.  Appreciate the reply-
    • Hi Daniel, It is important to inform what way of turning the staff You have choosen. Is it on T-rest with hand held gravers or with cros-slide support? This are quite different approaches and we will give beter advices if we know what You are doing. As I understand, You have HSS gravers. Well, HSS this days is not what it was say 50 years before, as they don't put tunsten in it any more. So, in practice, modern HSS tools are good for nothing. Old ones will probably do. New HSS tools with cobalt perform beter and are close to performance of old HSS tools. One possible reason for pivot turning problems is the steel is soft. Soft steel will tend to bend and stick to the tip of the graver. The other possible reason is the steel is to hard for the graver. If You let the material to get burnished instead of cut clear, the surface gets even more hard and thus HSS graver tip will get dull and will burnish further instead of cutting. So, turning needs correct position of the graver and attack angles, this is especially magnified when cutter is HSS. So, my advice is to use carbide cutters. The hardening of the steel is another, different craft, that needs a lot of learning. Preparing of the steel for balance staffs (and all other parts) needs to be made avoiding risks of incorrect heat treatment. The main risk is to overheat the steel - this makes it brittle and useless. Of course, one must know what kind of steel is to be hardened and what are it's critical temperatures. But typically for tool steel with 1% carbon content, heating for the hardening must be about 750 degr. celsius and no more than 790. Heating above 800 degr. ruins the steel making it with big crystals in the structure and brittle.  So If You will heat treat the steel by Youself, make experiments with examples that You will break after hardening and bluing to ensure that the structure is uniform grey color with very small crystals. The easier way for beginner is to use rollers from roller bearings. They are (usually) made from good steel and need only blue tempering.  
    • Hi pap3r, sorry for not getting back to you sooner. I used steel rod, i made a hole in one end to fit over the shaft of the motor, i used 3 grub screws to lock it into place. I lathed down the other end to fit the elma basket frame lid, that is also held in place by a grub screw. I have used the machine alot since this modification and it has worked perfectly, as long as you don't use a water based cleaner you won't have any problems with rust. Hope this helps.
    • I need to see the movement. If there is enough 'meat' under the post to drill a hole and to press new seel post there, this is a piece of cake. Of course, one can do it on the late with face plate. If I have to do it this way, will center by the undamaged part of the post. I don't have scope and never have used one. My Optivisor (#7) glasses  is what I use and this is enough. placing the cutter tip close to the object (the post) and observind the distance between them while rotating the spindle helps to find the needed direction for moving the movement in the face plate. The easier way is to file the post with dremel and drill the hole by hand, the drill bit in pin wise. Centering  with center drill bit, which donesn't bend and moving the center when turning the wise and pressing in needed direction is possible. The circular traces from mashining the post in the plate are enough to find the center. Another way is to use depthing tool to find the correct distance between posts of the minute and intermediate wheels and the distance between intermediate and the wheel in the rocker when rocker is in setting position and to draw arches, the crossing point will be the center for the post. For sure the cannon pinion must be checked, such wear is not normal in this place. Is there a calendar on the movement? Setting the calendar and cannon seizing due lack of lubrication may explain this kind of wear.
    • I honestly read this as a cruel joke, use a large reamer to undo all the work you just did reducing the hole to refit the barrel arbor. Now I get it - reamer only on the very outer edge, but I have a deburring tool for that anyway. I can't believe they had an in-house astronomer and in-house observatory at the Elgin factory to determine the reference time from a known star.
×
×
  • Create New...