Rolex 5035 Oysterquartz timing issues.

[Chrono15]

Hello all, any insight would be greatly appreciated!

I have a Rolex Oysterquartz I have serviced. Runs perfectly when laid flat, but will occasionally lose 2-3 seconds a day when worn. 

Does anyone have any clue what this may be? I can't imagine it's a regulation issue. 

Thanks! 

[jdm]

30 minutes ago, Chrono15 said:

 I can't imagine it's a regulation issue.

Not sure about your watch but quartz modules likely don't have regulation at all. You may need additional instruments to confirm that the pulse is regular, and If is, then you're left with the doubt on why some stepping is skipped.

[Chrono15]

34 minutes ago, jdm said:

Not sure about your watch but quartz modules likely don't have regulation at all. You may need additional instruments to confirm that the pulse is regular, and If is, then you're left with the doubt on why some stepping is skipped.

This one has a regulation 'screw' but I was always told quartz watches either keep time or they don't. + I'm not sure why it would keep time lying flat but not when worn? 

 

I don't have the tools to check the pulse, so I'll have to go elsewhere I assume and see if they can check it. 

[jdm]

Just now, Chrono15 said:

This one has a regulation 'screw'

Then it's of a vintage generation and your chances of better timekeeping could depend on it.

[Plato]

1 hour ago, Chrono15 said:

Hello all, any insight would be greatly appreciated!

I have a Rolex Oysterquartz I have serviced. Runs perfectly when laid flat, but will occasionally lose 2-3 seconds a day when worn. 

Does anyone have any clue what this may be? I can't imagine it's a regulation issue. 

Thanks! 

I'm guessing it could be the thermocompensating part of the circuit being at fault. When worn the module's temperature increases but the compensation could be way off. The 5035 movement has some adjustment screws other than the regulating one, hopefully the compensation could be adjusted with them. 

I think I have the technical guide, I'll check tomorrow. 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Plato
Grammar

[JohnR725]

10 minutes ago, Chrono15 said:

This one has a regulation 'screw' but I was always told quartz watches either keep time or they don't.

quartz watch timekeeping depends upon the electronics and the mechanical as to whether it keeps time. If the quartz is working then it's a mechanical issue.

17 minutes ago, Chrono15 said:

I'm not sure why it would keep time lying flat but not when worn

if it's keeping time the quartz is fine it's a mechanical issue. Besides the trimmer on this is only rated for plus or -2 seconds a day and your three seconds a day is outside of that range anyway. Rolex recommends that the regulation is beyond that you have to replace the module and because the age of this watch getting anything for is going to be really really difficult.

then for those that haven't seen the inside of one of these this is not your normal quartz watch. I found a YouTube video so you can see it working.

https://youtu.be/hsOk31Dj4EI

1 hour ago, Chrono15 said:

I have a Rolex Oysterquartz I have serviced.

did you follow the service guide when you're servicing this watch?

[jdm]

8 minutes ago, JohnR725 said:

Rolex recommends that the regulation is beyond that you have to replace the module and because the age of this watch getting anything for is going to be really really difficult.

Perhaps, a case of accepting it as it is and be happy anyway.

[Plato]

23 minutes ago, jdm said:

Perhaps, a case of accepting it as it is and be happy anyway.

Surely that's not the ethos of the forum when trying to fix a high value watch? Get this one fixed correctly. If the timing IC is functional, any other passive part can be replaced for another 50yrs of service. Rolex won't fix this one, it's not in their interest. Quartz shame! 

Edited September 10, 2021 by Plato
Grammar and politics

[Chrono15]

2 hours ago, jdm said:

Perhaps, a case of accepting it as it is and be happy anyway.

I considered this, as everything else seems to be great with the watch. 

[Chrono15]

2 hours ago, JohnR725 said:

quartz watch timekeeping depends upon the electronics and the mechanical as to whether it keeps time. If the quartz is working then it's a mechanical issue.

if it's keeping time the quartz is fine it's a mechanical issue. Besides the trimmer on this is only rated for plus or -2 seconds a day and your three seconds a day is outside of that range anyway. Rolex recommends that the regulation is beyond that you have to replace the module and because the age of this watch getting anything for is going to be really really difficult.

then for those that haven't seen the inside of one of these this is not your normal quartz watch. I found a YouTube video so you can see it working.

https://youtu.be/hsOk31Dj4EI

did you follow the service guide when you're servicing this watch?

I did, and have done these before in the past. I've never run into this issue before, hence me being so perplexed. 

[JohnR725]

20 minutes ago, Chrono15 said:

I did, and have done these before in the past. I've never run into this issue before, hence me being so perplexed. 

3 hours ago, Chrono15 said:

Runs perfectly when laid flat, but will occasionally lose 2-3 seconds a day when worn. 

I don't suppose you can narrow down the definition of occasionally?

usually on quartz watches slow would be a mechanical issue. Typically of the watch hadn't been serviced it's because the oil is coming up or there is dust in the watch.

I was once doing warranty work for a company and for the incoming watches I just had them set them all. Then rotate the box they ran once a day and make sure they run time before they left. His amazing how fast problems would show up because of whatever. Maybe try having your watch in different positions was laying flat see if that makes any difference at all.

then it would've been nice if Rolex had a test like low-voltage run or you lower the voltage down as a way of checking for efficiency. You should have been able also get a clue about that when you measure the current consumption it seemed higher than usual. They do of a page on troubleshooting it's not incredibly helpful it does hint at changing the components. In other words you may be having components are getting worn but it seems like you should notice that problem stationary but it may be a borderline problem. Or it could even be things like the secondhand is bumping in the something occasionally

 

[Plato]

14 hours ago, Chrono15 said:

This one has a regulation 'screw' but I was always told quartz watches either keep time or they don't. + I'm not sure why it would keep time lying flat but not when worn? 

I was wrong about being able to separately adjust the thermocompensation but from reading the technical info, Rolex regulate the watch at the 'worn' temperature of 28 deg. From the graph, I doubt it could account for the 2 s/day loss unless the circuit is faulty? Maybe you could replace the crystal but this would be a risky procedure.

[watchweasol]

A read through the attache document may help you in understanding the complexity of quartz watch timing. 

Witschi Training Course.pdf

[watchweasol]

Hi a little aditional reading on the rolex timing  http://www.oysterquartz.net/service.htm

[Plato]

It complicated but not rocket science!

Crystal oscillators do age and being that it looks like a component that could be replaced it is a valid suggestion. However, it would be very risky and not something I'd try unless I had a spare circuit to go back into the watch.

aging_perf_crystals.pdf

[jdm]

1 hour ago, Plato said:

 From the graph, I doubt it could account for the 2 s/day loss unless the circuit is faulty? 

The OP reports that the inaccuracy happens only when the watch is worn. One would think that an aged crystal would perform the same, watch worn or not. It's the uncertainty of the root cause, as well the smallness of the defect, which makes me think that any action taken may potentially do worse, one way or another.

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, Plato said:

Maybe you could replace the crystal but this would be a risky procedure.

this is where proper test equipment would be nice. Like timing machine for quartz watches what is the crystal frequency oscillating at? then additional tests like put it on your wrist let the watch warm-up see what the frequency is. Then take it off and leave it on the bench see if there's any difference at all.

Then there is the problem with the quartz crystal? Notice the regulation range it's very limited even for quartz watch. my suspicion is because this is not your usual $20 quartz movement Rolex took their time on everything in this watch including the quartz crystal. It's probably not off the shelf variety even though it looks like it. probably made to very exacting timing specifications.

if the watch was nonrunning if we thought it was the quartz crystal then changing the  the quartz crystal would definitely be an option because what would you have the lose. But because this watches running fine on the bench I'm leaning towards it's probably not the crystal.

then for those that don't have the service manual I'm attaching that.

 

 

Rolex 5035-5055 tech.pdf

[Plato]

45 minutes ago, jdm said:

The OP reports that the inaccuracy happens only when the watch is worn. One would think that an aged crystal would perform the same, watch worn or not. It's the uncertainty of the root cause, as well the smallness of the defect, which makes me think that any action taken may potentially do worse, one way or another.

You're probably right but if it were a cheaper watch with readily available parts then I'd give it a go. Would the -2s/day put off a buyer? I'm guessing collectors of these watches are quite particular.

[nickelsilver]

I suggest checking some basics first. Check that the rotor doesn't have a tiny steel sliver on it. These can come off of screws when worked with ill fitting drivers; a large sliver will usually stop the watch once it makes it to the rotor, but a small one may just weaken the step. There are also usually contacts between the coil and the circuit board that rely on a mechanical connection from screwing the two together; perhaps the contact pads are not spotlessly clean or tarnished, or the screw isn't tight enough.

 

Quartz clock movements are rated for a certain hand length and weight, these mechanisms have only so much oomph; if anything is weakening the stepping of a quartz watch it may well run perfectly still and flat, but have a hard time lifting the hands and fighting gravity when worn, missing a step here and there.

[Chrono15]

Thanks everyone for the replies! I've read through all of them this morning, and just checked the Oysterquartz. 

 

Oddly enough, after initially losing the 2-3s a day for the first two days of being worn. It now has been running at +/-0. 

Very strange.