What Happens Between Premium (Top) and Chronometer Execution?

[mzinski]

Hi, 

So Sellita claims their movements can be provided in three executions (performance specifications), Special, Premium, and Chronometer. 

I'm curious, what happens at the factory between Premium and Chronometer? 

Would it be possible for a watchmaker to receive a Premium movement and make adjustments to meet Chronometer specifications? If so, what kind of adjustments would one expect to be necessary? 

The short backstory, I've been confirming and reconfirming with Sellita the availability, terms, and pricing for chronometer (though, not COSC certified) movements for the last two years. I'm finally prepared to place an order with them last week and they changed their mind. Now I am evaluating alternative methods to obtain chronometer performing movements. One avenue is what I'm asking about above, obtaining the best possible movement then having adjustments made by a watchmaker to achieve chronometer performance. Being a hobbyist, I don't fully know what is required between the two movement grades to get there. 

 

Brochure_technique-SW300-1_2.pdf

[Plato]

2 hours ago, mzinski said:

Hi, 

So Sellita claims their movements can be provided in three executions (performance specifications), Special, Premium, and Chronometer. 

I'm curious, what happens at the factory between Premium and Chronometer? 

Would it be possible for a watchmaker to receive a Premium movement and make adjustments to meet Chronometer specifications? If so, what kind of adjustments would one expect to be necessary? 

The short backstory, I've been confirming and reconfirming with Sellita the availability, terms, and pricing for chronometer (though, not COSC certified) movements for the last two years. I'm finally prepared to place an order with them last week and they changed their mind. Now I am evaluating alternative methods to obtain chronometer performing movements. One avenue is what I'm asking about above, obtaining the best possible movement then having adjustments made by a watchmaker to achieve chronometer performance. Being a hobbyist, I don't fully know what is required between the two movement grades to get there. 

 

Brochure_technique-SW300-1_2.pdf 5.8 MB · 4 downloads

I bet they just segregate the best performing movements and charge accordingly. 

[Nucejoe]

3 hours ago, mzinski said:

Would it be possible for a watchmaker to receive a Premium movement and make adjustments to meet Chronometer specifications? If so, what kind of adjustments would one expect to be necessary? 

Wouldn't such adjustment be easier to make for the manufacturer as they have  special proprietary tools, highly skilled watchmakers you name it. What does a repairman have couple of dull screwdrivers and a tweezers. oh plus a loupe.           Here take a look for yourself.   

 

[watchweasol]

 I am sure you are right graded by performance after assembly and test therfore no need to readjust/and replace bits to achieve COSC certification.  In a way I suppose its more in the interests of profit  saving rework time.

[JohnR725]

1 hour ago, Plato said:

bet they just segregate the best performing movements and charge accordingly. 

do we know if there actually is in a physical differences in the watches? I know some of the Swiss companies use a different hairspring and balance wheel for the higher grade watches?

 

[mzinski]

4 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

Wouldn't such adjustment be easier to make for the manufacturer as they have  special proprietary tools, highly skilled watchmakers you name it. What does a repairman have couple of dull screwdrivers and a tweezers. oh plus a loupe.           Here take a look for yourself.   

 

Oh, it would be WAY easier for them to do it. But they’ve changed their mind, reneged on their earlier affirmations, and I’m stuck holding the bag. 
If you know a watchrepairman with some dull screwdrivers and tweezers who’ll do the work, give him my number! 

[Plato]

8 hours ago, mzinski said:

Oh, it would be WAY easier for them to do it. But they’ve changed their mind, reneged on their earlier affirmations, and I’m stuck holding the bag. 
If you know a watchrepairman with some dull screwdrivers and tweezers who’ll do the work, give him my number! 

Were you planning on buying in bulk? I don't think Sellita sell to the general public, you might be able to buy what you're after through Cousins though. 

[jdm]

17 hours ago, mzinski said:

So Sellita claims their movements can be provided in three executions (performance specifications), Special, Premium, and Chronometer. 

 

My understanding is that these are in fact just indicative classifications, what happens is that beside better timekeeping obtained using different parts (a micro regulator is almost always one, and sometime different matarial jewels) plus of course factory adjusting, these go together with aesthetic improvements, which in turn can be customized from a customer and batch to another. All details which are only privately discussed with established customer with teh traditional Swiss secrecy. In fact it has been like that for more than 200 years now.

Also, the notion I got from different source and meetings  is that this manufacturer, and others as well, will not take orders smaller than (about ?) 500pcs.

[nickelsilver]

I know that ETA uses a different grade of pallet stones in their standard and elabore' levels, and nickel balance with Nivarox 2 spring. At least that was the case as of about 10 years ago. The upper grades have Nivarox 1 and glucydur balance, and proper ruby pallets (and different shock jewels).

 

Sellita has an elabore' level, but no idea if they actually use different components. If, like ETA their Premium and Chronometer levels use the same components, it's likely as said above a matter of selection there. It's highly possible that a skilled watchmaker could push a Premium to Chronometer. But, that might take 30 minutes or 3 hours. Even at 30 minutes (which is very optimistic) that will carry a price- and you still won't have anything official saying it meets COSC. And- even with a glucydur balance and Nivarox 1 spring and the best effort of a skilled watchmaker not every watch will be able to cut it, that's a risk, and a watchmaker would want a guarantee for the effort without being able to guarantee the outcome...

[Graziano]

13 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

What does a repairman have couple of dull screwdrivers and a tweezers. oh plus a loupe.           Here take a look for yourself.   

Sometimes swapped out lenses so you can see 2

[mzinski]

7 hours ago, Plato said:

Were you planning on buying in bulk? I don't think Sellita sell to the general public, you might be able to buy what you're after through Cousins though. 

Correct, a bulk purchase. I have an existing business account with Sellita and purchase directly from them. 

7 hours ago, jdm said:

My understanding is that these are in fact just indicative classifications, what happens is that beside better timekeeping obtained using different parts (a micro regulator is almost always one, and sometime different matarial jewels) plus of course factory adjusting, these go together with aesthetic improvements, which in turn can be customized from a customer and batch to another. All details which are only privately discussed with established customer with teh traditional Swiss secrecy. In fact it has been like that for more than 200 years now.

Also, the notion I got from different source and meetings  is that this manufacturer, and others as well, will not take orders smaller than (about ?) 500pcs.

Looking through their technical literature (with some expert assistance from @JohnR725 ) it looks like Sellita uses the same components on their Premium (Top) and Chronometre executions - real rubies, glucydor balance, etc. I'm confirming with Sellita whether there are unpublished differences in components. 

As to order quantity - it is very dependent on the order request. For standard production models, you may order 1pcs. For upgrades and customizations, the MOQ increases and is variable depending on the order specifications. 

7 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

If, like ETA their Premium and Chronometer levels use the same components, it's likely as said above a matter of selection there. It's highly possible that a skilled watchmaker could push a Premium to Chronometer. But, that might take 30 minutes or 3 hours. Even at 30 minutes (which is very optimistic) that will carry a price- and you still won't have anything official saying it meets COSC. And- even with a glucydur balance and Nivarox 1 spring and the best effort of a skilled watchmaker not every watch will be able to cut it, that's a risk, and a watchmaker would want a guarantee for the effort without being able to guarantee the outcome...

Glass half full - it's feasible and possible. I like those odds! 

In your opinion and assuming components are the same materials between the two levels, would the adjustments required likely be as simple as regulation and/or do you suspect poising (static and dynamic) would be required? What other adjustments would you guess could be necessary?