Old orient case

[ElioBD13]

Hey there!

I hope you all are doing well!

During this months I've started my journey. While I'm doing pretty well with movement and mechanics, I had and I'm having troubles with an old orient case.

First of all, I've not been able to get the crystal out without braking it. Than I thought that the "bezel" (I don't know if I can call it bezel) was pressure fitted into the case, but it looks like it isn't. So, is it possible that this kind of bezels are glued? Do someone know how should I try to reinstall it and with what kind of crystal?? Here's some photos that I hope will be helpful.

[Plato]

It is a bezel and you shouldn't glue it in. I'm guessing it'll press fit into place with the crystal in position, not without it.

[ElioBD13]

1 hour ago, Plato said:

It is a bezel and you shouldn't glue it in. I'm guessing it'll press fit into place with the crystal in position, not without it.

Okay, that was my first guess as well, but I think I ordered the wrong glass because it didn't work. Do you know if I need a special type of plexiglass, what is it called? For the measure, should I take the inner diameter of the bezel or the inner of the case? Thanks a lot Plato!

[Plato]

How broken is the original? Every time I've replaced a glass, I always measured the old one with calipers and if unsure I buy a size smaller and larger... there's probably a better way.

I assume it has to be the correct thickness as well. You might have to get the proper Orient glass, if you upload the full details of the watch then I'm sure someone will know how to find the correct part.

[ElioBD13]

1 hour ago, Plato said:

How broken is the original? Every time I've replaced a glass, I always measured the old one with calipers and if unsure I buy a size smaller and larger... there's probably a better way.

I assume it has to be the correct thickness as well. You might have to get the proper Orient glass, if you upload the full details of the watch then I'm sure someone will know how to find the correct part.

Thanks again Plato.

Well, the old one is destroyed. And I destroyed it whil trying to remove it, possibly because I used the press the wrong way, or because it was too stuck. I don't know.

That being said, case is a OS207A009.

Measurements:

- inner diameter of the case 27mm

- outer diameter of the case 33.5mm

- inner diameter of the bezel 30.5mm

Obviously when I say diameter of the case I'm talking about the groove where the crystal sits, but see the images, it should be clear with that.

 

Thanks in advance for any help!

[jdm]

4 hours ago, ElioBD13 said:

Should I take the inner diameter of the bezel or the inner of the case?

The one where the bottom of the crystal fits inside.

[Plato]

What's the diameter of the case where the glass will fit over (as shown in the first picture at the start of the post)?

The glass will need to be slightly bigger than the bezel so it should be something like this:

"HWS Sternkreuz 30.6" The thickness of this glass is 1.4mm so the diameter on the case should be about 27.8mm

Hopefully, someone with a bit more experience than me will confirm, or contradict me before you buy anything. 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Plato
Highlighted part

[jdm]

21 hours ago, ElioBD13 said:

Do you know if I need a special type of plexiglass, what is it called?

Could be a top crystal. In fact, the example drawing references Orient.

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/domed-top-sternkreuz-xs

 

20 hours ago, Plato said:

You might have to get the proper Orient glass, if you upload the full details of the watch then I'm sure someone will know how to find the correct part.

I wish it was so easy. Unlike Seiko, which to some extent has always published casing parts, Orient did not. And that would just allow to know the P/N, then getting the part itself can turn to be impossible.

Moral, when working on watches, treat them as if all parts are unreplaceable. If something does not move, stop there, and think or gather information about the issue before it's too late.

[xyzzy]

This looks like an case with an exterior tension ring to hold the crystal on.  

The flange on the outside edge of the crystal, as in the drawing jdm linked to, should fit outside that raised lip on the case.  The ID of the crystal should be sightly smaller than the OD of the case lip.

Then the bezel/tension ring fits over the crystal. So the OD of the crystal flange should be about equal to the ID of the tension ring.

The flange on the side of the crystal is now sandwiched between the case and tension ring.  Without the crystal there, the tension ring is much too loose.

[ElioBD13]

@xyzzy @jdm @Plato

Guys..just for you to know.

It has happened again. So, shame on me.

Totally different case, from a Swiss made Kowal from the 70s.

I analyzed the case for 3 days. "This is press fitted, for sure". So I took the press and...crack. Again. That's very frustrating.

I just don't get how am I supposed to remove the damn glass. Seriously. 

I leave here some photos. I still have not been able to remove all the glass from the case, so the -supposed to be- tension ring is still in place. 

Please, someone help me understand how this works and how can I notice it before destroy all my crystals.

 

 

[xyzzy]

For an exterior tension ring, try to get the ring off with a case knife.

But maybe that crystal was glued in?  It's hard to tell.

[HectorLooi]

It looks like a crystal lift was needed for that watch. Sometimes I just put one of those rubber movement holders on the inside and give a sharp tap with a hammer while holding the case in the other hand. 

Crystals do break occasionally, even with the utmost care. So don't remove it unless absolutely necessary. 

[Plato]

As @HectorLooi suggests , a crystal lift tool like this:

https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/round-shaped-glasses-bergeon-6400

They crop up for sale used on eBay often. 

They aren't guaranteed to work in safely removing the crystal though, especially with tension rings. 

[ElioBD13]

11 hours ago, xyzzy said:

For an exterior tension ring, try to get the ring off with a case knife.

But maybe that crystal was glued in?  It's hard to tell.

It is very hard to tell. But it totally looks like it was. Impossible to get the ring off in this case, I'll show you:

As you would probably see the ring goes totally inside the case.

Thanks @HectorLooi and @Plato.

Do someone know what type of plexiglass should I buy? 

[Marc]

You're going to have to get that bezel off in order to correctly fit the replacement crystal.

If you look between the strap lugs is there anywhere for a case knife to pry?

[jdm]

You have posted pictures of two different watches, compare below.

One the second one, the bezel is removed by pressing a suitable die from the inside, however likely that is not necessary in order to replace the crystal.

Please clarify on which watch are you working on and with which objective.

 

On 10/30/2021 at 1:28 PM, ElioBD13 said:

Hey there!

I hope you all are doing well!

During this months I've started my journey. While I'm doing pretty well with movement and mechanics, I had and I'm having troubles with an old orient case.

First of all, I've not been able to get the crystal out without braking it. Than I thought that the "bezel" (I don't know if I can call it bezel) was pressure fitted into the case, but it looks like it isn't. So, is it possible that this kind of bezels are glued? Do someone know how should I try to reinstall it and with what kind of crystal?? Here's some photos that I hope will be helpful.

 

 

5 hours ago, ElioBD13 said:

 

[ElioBD13]

5 hours ago, Marc said:

You're going to have to get that bezel off in order to correctly fit the replacement crystal.

If you look between the strap lugs is there anywhere for a case knife to pry?

Well, no. But! You where right even if there was not a groove, pushing with a case opener between the lugs made the bezel to come off. Now, the only remaining challenge will be to find a replacement crystal and..never ever do the same mistake a third time. 

[Marc]

OK that's great.

If what you've got is what I think it is then you want the Sternkreuz ST, Domed Top range which you order by outer/inner diameter.

Check out here.

The idea is that the crystal is sandwiched between the inner diameter of the bezel and the outer diameter of the case, making a very secure and water tight fit. With this type of crystal no press or crystal lift tool is of any use at all unles you get the bezel off first, and then the crystal should simply push off the case.

[ElioBD13]

On 11/5/2021 at 10:59 PM, Marc said:

OK that's great.

If what you've got is what I think it is then you want the Sternkreuz ST, Domed Top range which you order by outer/inner diameter.

Check out here.

The idea is that the crystal is sandwiched between the inner diameter of the bezel and the outer diameter of the case, making a very secure and water tight fit. With this type of crystal no press or crystal lift tool is of any use at all unles you get the bezel off first, and then the crystal should simply push off the case.

I thought it was a glass with shoulder, because after removing the bezel there was a remaining ring of crystal underneath it. 

Obviously now that you made me think about it, I supposed the meaning of "shoulder" and probably I was wrong. Ahah

So, inner diameter of the crystal will be the case inner rim

 and outer will be the bezel inner diameter.

Thanks a lot @Marc, I will try it and let you know as soon as I get the crystal. Cheers.

 

Edited November 7, 2021 by ElioBD13
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