Shot in the dark movement question

[JS335]

I know this is random but would anyone happen to know the lift angle of a GUB Glashutte cal 60.1 movement?  I've seen the movement list that's been posted here but this one isn't on it.

[JohnC]

I do not know, but you can calculate the lift angle yourself by winding the watch slowly until the balance reaches 180 degrees amplitude, then finding the lift angle on your timegrapher that gives a reading of 180 degrees.

[JohnC]

Incidentally, I hope @nickelsilver can answer this, is "lift angle" not a misnomer? The timegrapher picks up a sound when the impulse jewel hits the pallet fork. So it seems to me we should be referring to "escaping angle," not lift (or impulse) angle. Sorry @JS335 for contaminating your question with this aside.

[JS335]

Thanks for the info JohnC.  No worries on your question.  I'll learn along with you on that.

[nickelsilver]

12 minutes ago, JohnC said:

Incidentally, I hope @nickelsilver can answer this, is "lift angle" not a misnomer? The timegrapher picks up a sound when the impulse jewel hits the pallet fork. So it seems to me we should be referring to "escaping angle," not lift (or impulse) angle. Sorry @JS335 for contaminating your question with this aside.

The timing machine picks up three sounds, when the impulse jewel hits the fork, when fork unlocks and an escape tooth hits the impulse surface of a pallet jewel, and when the next tooth locks on the other pallet jewel. These are the three spikes you see on oscilloscope readings of the escapement. 

 

The lift angle is the angle the balance goes through from the moment the impulse jewel contacts the fork slot to the moment it ceases to be in contact.

[Nucejoe]

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[Nucejoe]

 

[praezis]

1 hour ago, JohnC said:

Incidentally, I hope @nickelsilver can answer this, is "lift angle" not a misnomer? The timegrapher picks up a sound when the impulse jewel hits the pallet fork. So it seems to me we should be referring to "escaping angle," not lift (or impulse) angle. Sorry @JS335 for contaminating your question with this aside.

May I, too?
Imo you are absolutely right. Lift is just a part of what timing machines call  a lift angle.
This same discussion I had some time ago in a German forum. My suggestion was "Hemmungswinkel" (escapement angle) :-))

Frank

[watchweasol]

Hi The Glashuette 65 uses      53Deg  Lift angle so working on the assumption the 60.1 is of the same family its probably the same.   hope its useful  if not I will shut up.

[JS335]

Thank you watchweasol.  I actually performed a test using 53 deg. at it seemed to work reasonably well.  Just using an iphone app not an actual timegrapher.  

[JohnC]

15 minutes ago, praezis said:

May I, too?
Imo you are absolutely right. Lift is just a part of what timing machines call  a lift angle.
This samediscussion I had some time ago in a German forum. My suggestion was "Hemmungswinkel" (escapement angle) :

@praezis

Ya this is also what Daniels calls the sum of the unlocking and impulse angles. Glad we had the same thought.

Thanks @nickelsilver

[JohnR725]

I snipped out something from one of witschi's PDF on timing machine stuff here is what they call lift angle.

[JohnC]

Wow, that paragraph is basically unreadable. But yes the picture makes it clear that in this case "lift" angle is the entire time the impulse jewel is in contact with the escapement, including unlocking. Thanks!

[JohnR725]

2 hours ago, JohnC said:

Wow, that paragraph is basically unreadable

Basically they're saying is they need two signals and a magical lift angle number and some math and then they come up with amplitude.

I snipped out where you take your lift angle and it does all the math that shows you how it's supposed to work out. Always amusing is from the image that is a perfect image of the waveform in real life you get variations for variety reasons and then of course the amplitude is off by a little bit. Or if you get really low amplitudes then the machine will end up and it doesn't really matter whether it's witschi here Chinese Chinese is much more susceptible blow if the amplitude is too low ill pick up the middle sounding part of the waveform and give you a beautiful amplitude that just isn't there. One of the reasons the Chinese may have a problem with their machine is witschi will measure of lower amplitude the window it's looking at as much bigger the Chinese machine.

 

Witschi Training Course.pdf