Connecting Chinese Weishi microphone to computer

[JohnR725]

The reason I asked if your microphone would work with the other software is it gives you a selling opportunity to sell microphones to people who like this discussion need a microphone. but we would have to see that it actually does work with the other software as you commented the various software processes things differently so that might not work.

Then for the Chinese microphone I measured the voltages today. So for the 1000 the internal analog circuitry is being run at basically + and -6 V. Even though there is a 6 V  regulator in their the 6 V is really 5.91 V and that is on one of the pins for the microphone. Having seen the op amp in the microphone itself I suspect it should  run off  the 5 V of the USB.

So anyone curious of the microphone  if you do a search on eBay for   Timegrapher microphone    quite a few come up at amusing prices. So the very cheapest one isn't the cheapest because they charge shipping. Then I'm attaching an image notice 2 identical microphones at not an identical price? the amusing aspect of the $110 microphone is you could just buy the machine with the microphone for just a little more money it's not worthwhile but I guess are assuming nobody does price checking. so the $75 microphone is what I was looking at should be identical to the one that came with the machine. Although in the past they used to say the separate microphone was enhanced I think it's more of a mechanical enhancement. Then the third microphone has a different connector and goes with an entirely different series of machines

[praezis]

Thank you!

My microphones amplify the piezo signal 10 ... 20x, depends on the internal circuit of the mic input. A new model with 100x ampl. is in the pipeline, of course without separate power supply, too.

The internal opamp in the Chinese mics needed voltage >7 V according to its datasheet, but seems they use a more modern one now, running from 5 V, too.

Frank

[JohnR725]

image attached of their amplifier board. so the board has a single op amp looking at the TI data sheet looks like the lowest of the normal operating voltage is 5 volts. Which should work perfect with the 5 V of the USB port. I was kinda hoping the most it would need is a volume adjustments on the output in case it was too much for the microphone input of the computer.

 

[praezis]

[JohnR725]

it's not really the end of the world for this as they make inexpensive switching regulator modules. Then I've ordered another USB module to power this and try it anyway off the 5 volts. I found one that's nice and quiet with a bonus feature of on the backside of the circuit board square solder pads for the power connections.

Then what I find interesting is if you find a part made by multiple of manufacturers a lot of times you find that the specifications aren't always exactly the same for the same part?  so right now I was looking at a tech sheet first one was interesting shows the +6 V with no clarifications? Then on the same tech sheet it shows plus and minus voltages with + -5? Then the TI sheet makes a clarification which is you can have differing voltages for the plus and minus as long as the total is 10. 10 is considerably higher than the Chinese 5.91. 

then back to the TI data sheet and noticed what you have above which is very very confusing. So the minimum says (+5 equals 5, +/-5=10)  then there is the number 7? So we get a plus minus voltage situation the total has to be 10 but here it says the minimum is seven?

It's really a shame they didn't go with one of the modern op amps that's designed to run a lower voltages and a lot of them are low noise or lower noise. so as I have the microphone and Monday hopefully another USB adapter shows up I'm going to try at 5 V anyway because I can.

 

[Luc]

On my Weishi No 1000 timegrapher, the preamp uses a Ti 2272C, wich is powered by +8V.

I bought a DIY adapter for Weishi microphone and PC, in order to have the benefits of Weishi microphone stand and graphic display of TG software.
-With Weishi microphone stand, I like to test the watch or the movement in all positions, safely.
-With TG software, I like the details provided by the PC screen, and to "see" the sound from tic toc

The adapter has an USB powered 8v power supply, a TRRS microphone jack and an XLR connector for the microphone.

[jdm]

1 hour ago, Luc said:

I bought a DIY adapter for Weishi microphone and PC, in order to have the benefits of Weishi microphone stand and graphic display of TG software.

Can you post the link?

[Luc]

Quote

Actually, I bought from a guy who made it. Parts needed:

-some 2 way cable
-1 TRRS male jack 3.5 mm
-1 XLR male connector 3 pin
-1 USB Step up PS 8V  (https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B01G56J4I6/ref=psdc_2908498031_t2_B0721MX1P5)

Here is a drawing:
 

 

[tobich]

On my Weishi No 1000 timegrapher, the preamp uses a Ti 2272C, wich is powered by +8V.
I bought a DIY adapter for Weishi microphone and PC, in order to have the benefits of Weishi microphone stand and graphic display of TG software.
-With Weishi microphone stand, I like to test the watch or the movement in all positions, safely.
-With TG software, I like the details provided by the PC screen, and to "see" the sound from tic toc
The adapter has an USB powered 8v power supply, a TRRS microphone jack and an XLR connector for the microphone.

Can you please post pictures from this diy adapter

Gesendet von meinem G8141 mit Tapatalk

[Luc]

[dadistic]

Fantastic!

Thanks for posting this.

[Lycanthrope]

On 8/5/2019 at 3:21 AM, Luc said:

 

[Lycanthrope]

Hello, how does this setup work so far. I have just ordered the parts I hope i will have the parts to try in a month or two. Thank you... this was a great thread. 

P.S. i have not as yet ordered the Weishi microphone. 

[jdrichard]

I too would like a solution so I can use my etimer software with the new mic on my WeiShi 1900. Great little machine btw.

[jdm]

23 hours ago, jdrichard said:

I too would like a solution so I can use my etimer software with the new mic on my WeiShi 1900. Great little machine btw.

Check content above. The connector on the Chinese timegrapher is not a DIN neither an XLR, it's an "aero" type.. And you need a 9V source, most practical is from an USB upconverter.

[jdrichard]

20 hours ago, jdm said:

That has been discussed in the past and the schematic has been posted.. The connector on the Chinese timegrapher is not a DIN neither an XLR, it's an "aero" type.. And you need a 9V source, most practical is from an USB upconverter.

I purchased a piezoelectric pickup for violins and see if this will work.  Coming in tomorrow 

[xyzzy]

20 hours ago, jdm said:

 And you need a 9V source, most practical is from an USB upconverter.

Does it need 9V, or can it run from less?  While the pre-amplifier in the cheaper 3d printed microphone uses a 9V battery, it should be possible to power it from a wider voltage range of 5 - 12 volts.  I tried powering it directly from USB and it seemed to work fine.  Maybe the 1000/1900 microphone works with 5V too, which makes things easier.  Direct USB of course, and also one can readily get usb chargeable batteries with 5V output.  Typical power bank or a board like https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000200690185.html  USB to 9V exists too of course but isn't nearly as much choice as 5V.

I found that powering directly from my computer's USB allowed the audio cable to serve as the ground return for the USB 5V.  This seems like not a great idea for noise nor the sound card's input.

[jdm]

53 minutes ago, jdrichard said:

I purchased a piezoelectric pickup for violins and see if this will work.

That will need a pre-amp to work good with a PC. 

The articulated mic of the timegrapher has a pre-amp in the black casing. 

[jdm]

On 1/6/2022 at 7:15 PM, xyzzy said:

Does it need 9V, or can it run from less? 

The IC used in there supports a voltage range, but 5V is outside specifications, that's why you need an USB step up, easy and cheap for $2. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001081594055.html

 

 

[praezis]

17 hours ago, xyzzy said:

Maybe the 1000/1900 microphone works with 5V too, which makes things easier. 

It contains a TL071.

But iirr newer version use a more modern chip that can run with lower supply voltage.
Try what works or open the case and check which type is inside.

Frank

[JohnR725]

21 hours ago, jdm said:

Yes, the IC used in there supports a voltage range, but 5V is outside specifications, that's why you need an USB step up, easy and cheap for $2. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001081594055.html

Somebody beat me to the answer it depends upon which integrated circuit is in the microphone.

4 hours ago, praezis said:

It contains a TL071.

But iirr newer version use a more modern chip that can run with lower supply voltage.
Try what works or open the case and check which type is inside.

Not only is it a different integrated circuit it's a much nicer one. Is the same thing that I use in my amplifier. The first link has the specifications of the integrated circuit. The second link looks like your typical review they do with lots of pictures scroll Down far enough and there's a nice picture the integrated circuit of the 2272C.

https://www.ti.com/product/TLC2272

https://eevblog.com/forum/reviews/weishi-no-1900-multifunction-timegrapher-teardown/

Then if you're curious about what the schematic looks like somebody did the hard work for us. But while we do get a schematic some wrong conclusions are made like the frequency range of a watch.

 

https://www.edaboard.com/threads/piezo-preamplifier-missing-cap-values.388867/

 

 

 

 

 

[xyzzy]

1 hour ago, JohnR725 said:

Not only is it a different integrated circuit it's a much nicer one. Is the same thing that I use in my amplifier.

So here's a question, can the difference be measured?

[JohnR725]

3 hours ago, xyzzy said:

So here's a question, can the difference be measured?

It depends on what you defined by measurements? The biggest difference is which I like is low voltage and I think low power consumption but I haven't looked at the tech sheet a while. Because I don't like batteries typically and I'm running my amp off a USB power which is 5 V. Whereas was pointed out above the original op amp won't run at 5 V not without the voltage being stepped up.

Then I think there was a noise difference but I'd have to look at both the tech sheets together and could we measure that difference probably I really don't know if we measured noise difference or not. But you can definitely run it on 5 V and that's definitely a difference and improvements.

One of the problems that comes up for noise is all the other components also in the circuitry. Everything associated with will generate noise so whether changing the integrated circuit will make a huge difference or not if everything else is going to be noisy who knows.

 

[xyzzy]

The 3d printed stand has a LM386 based amplifier, just like this 38 cent board on alix, which also runs on 5V.  So if someone wants cheap finished amplifier board, there is one.

But is the TLC2272 based amp better?  That cheap board above does work, but it does seem like it has a lot of noise to me.  Is it from the LM386, or even the amp board?  Or one of those other noise sources?  I don't know.  But it's something I'd like to figure out.

The audio cable to the microphone has two channels, both are captured.  Only one is connected to the amp and piezo. Can we say something about the noise from the soundcard vs the noise from the amp by subtracting or comparing them?

We can capture with no watch in the microphone and with a watch in there ticking.  And we have the sound during the actual tick and the sound between ticks.  Does comparing that tell us anything?

What if one generated a test tone a single known frequency via a buzzer?  Then one could measure the output and used standard techniques to get SNR, SINAD, THD, etc. values.  Would that be useful, or is it too different from a ticking watch to extrapolate the results?

Here's an idea.  Some sort of watch sized membrane, maybe just a thin disc of plastic, that is meant to pick up ambient sound.  Put that in the stand.  Put a speaker near it, play test tones on the speaker, measure the result.  I.e., like REW does to measure speakers, but in this case we care more about the microphone than the speaker.

[Luc]

It would be nice to be able to lower the noise: received a Seiko 6106, sound is just above the noise, TG software is not always able to synchronize with the watch.

But noise cancellation is a vast field of knowledge...

I'm afraid that computer power supply isn't free of noise by the way.

Edited February 6, 2022 by Luc