Cleaning and oiling balance and jewels

[mlfloyd1]

How about a basic ultrasonic jewelry cleaner with store bought jewelry cleaner solution?

Is it effective enough?

I really can't afford a professional cleaner at this time.

Sorry for the double posting.

Edited January 4, 2015 by mlfloyd1

[mlfloyd1]

Is there a link for cleaning watch parts w/o a professional watch cleaning machine?

[bobm12]

Hi Geo, I didn't see your post about the new cleaning machine. How did it go?

 

 

@mlfloyd: The information is intermixed since we all use different systems of both professional and non-professional cleaning. Just do a search, there is plenty in here. I must add that if you use ultrasonic "jewelry" cleaners, you may get away removing the jewels from the cock and plate when cleaning the scape wheel since there is no cyclone action. Also, jewelry cleaner chemicals are not exactly healthy for watch parts considering some of them might have agents that might harm different materials used in those parts (example: shellac, etc). I would use those for bracelets, and such.

[Geo]

Hi Geo, I didn't see your post about the new cleaning machine. How did it go?

Hi Bob, if you are asking about the the old Brenray machine, I have been way too busy and lazy to look at it over the Christmas/New year period. Don't worry, I'll post a few lines when it's up and running.

[bobm12]

Excellent Geo, I can't wait! :)

[anilv]

Hi floyd,

 

jewelry cleaners are best for bracelets/bands but should be better than nothing.

 

Use smaller jars with cleaning solution and place it in the cleaners, (the ultrasonic transducer will usually be central)..I would imagine a thin plastic connector would transmit the ultrasonic waves better but I may be wrong.

 

Anil

[Lc130]

Hi All

I'm a beginner.  I've run the balance jewels from an AS 1700 thru the ultrasonic.  The jewel didn't come out of the setting as it did the last and only time I've done this before.  Should it?  Otherwise, I can image that a bubble can form under the setting preventing any cleaning fluid from getting in.

 

Thank you

Charlie

 

[mikepilk]

15 minutes ago, Lc130 said:

Hi All

I'm a beginner.  I've run the balance jewels from an AS 1700 thru the ultrasonic.  The jewel didn't come out of the setting as it did the last and only time I've done this before.  Should it?  Otherwise, I can image that a bubble can form under the setting preventing any cleaning fluid from getting in.

 

Thank you

Charlie

 

Hi Charlie

Do you mean that the cap jewel didn't come off - are they Incabloc ?

Unless really stuck with old oil, they usually come off in the ultrasonic.

If not, try prodding them with some pegwood (under fluid so they don't ping off),  or press the cap jewel in to some Rodico.

Mike

[Lc130]

2 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

Hi Charlie

Do you mean that the cap jewel didn't come off - are they Incabloc ?

Unless really stuck with old oil, they usually come off in the ultrasonic.

If not, try prodding them with some pegwood (under fluid so they don't ping off),  or press the cap jewel in to some Rodico.

Mike

Yes, Incabloc cap jewels.  Almost microscopic. 

Interestingly, it immediately came apart when I reran it with naptha instead of the cleaning solution that I mixed up from a recipe on this site.  That recipe is distilled water, murphy's soap, ammonia, and cascade.  Certainly safer to have in the house but now I'm wondering if it's optimal??  

Another question:  is it common for the top and bottom incabloc cap jewels to be different?  

The idea of prodding the jewel under fluid is very helpful and non-intuitive.  I've lost count of all my pinged off parts.  Maybe I should take this hobby into the pool:)

Charlie

[rogart63]

It's pretty common to use different jewels or at least different cap jewels. So take care so you get them back as they where before. The AS1700 i don't know about but down load the document on cousinsuk to which size it should have. https://www.cousinsuk.com/document/category/inca

[clockboy]

Yes it is common for the top & bottom to be different, just always clean individually to avoid fitting the wrong way around. 

[nickelsilver]

If they are different diameters then it will be clear which goes where. If there is a difference of thickness the thick one always goes on top- in the balance cock. Remember the sound a clock makes- tick tock: thick top. You won't forget!

[Lc130]

20 minutes ago, nickelsilver said:

If they are different diameters then it will be clear which goes where. If there is a difference of thickness the thick one always goes on top- in the balance cock. Remember the sound a clock makes- tick tock: thick top. You won't forget!

Very helpful!  Are cap jewels symmetrically shaped or do they have an upside and downside.  Almost impossible to tell with the loupe. 

[nickelsilver]

There is a convex side and a flat side. The flat side goes toward the pivot.

[mikepilk]

I've just cleaned a couple myself - I use an old contact lens storage case to keep the jewels separate. 

A drop of lighter fluid, and float in hot water in the ultrasonic. Then rinse in isopropanol

[tony1212]

Hello,

I have a question about cleaning. In the course I saw that if I don't have a cleaning machine I can clean parts by hand using benzine. 

I wondered if it could be a problem to put parts that have jewels fitted with shellac in benzine. As the benzine could melt the shellac. Is it ok to do it if doesn't stay to long in the solvent? How would you clean these parts if you don't have a dedicated watch cleaner?

Thank for your help!

Tony1212

[nickelsilver]

Benzine won't melt the shellac. Alcohol will, but even that needs some time.

[yankeedog]

For balance assemblies I find automotive brake cleaner, or electrical contact cleaner sprayed in a small bowl works very nicely.I tend to leave pallets alone unless they are dirty. I too am worried about the effects of solvents on the shellac, I have had stones fall out. If need be they get a dip in hot soapy water..for the shortest possible time.

[VWatchie]

I use naphtha and in my experience, the shellac will basically stay unaffected. However, I wouldn't leave those parts in naphtha for a week, but for a day or two I haven't had any problems, and I always check the integrity of the pallets and impulse pin after cleaning. However, be very careful with alcohol-based solvents such as isopropanol (aka IPA). I ordinarily rinse in IPA, but the pallets and the balance only for a few seconds and then I immediately blow them dry. The idea is to remove any remaining naphtha.

An ultrasonic cleaner and warm/hot water will do a decent job (I use 60 ml glass jars with naphtha that I place the parts in and then the jars go in the ultrasonic cleaner). However, the ultrasonic cleaner will not be able to remove rust, corrosion, and some other stubborn dirt, so after cleaning I always inspect the parts and use fibreglass scratch brushes (my no.1 favourite cleaning tool)  as needed and rinse in IPA again.

Good luck!

Edited March 21, 2019 by VWatchie
typo

[nickelsilver]

For you guys doing hand cleaning with naphtha or any solvent it's important to dry in warm air, a hair dryer is fine. The evaporation drops the temperature and there's a real risk of condensation and rust on the newly cleaned steel. This is why the old books are always talking about drying in warm sawdust.

[VWatchie]

Oh, forgot to mention!

Big parts (main plate, bridges, and even some medium sized parts such as the ratchet wheel, etc.) I clean using warm/hot water, detergent (Yes!), and variously sized toothbrushes! It's super efficient and after this treatment, the parts look all shiny and new! Haven't found anything that beats it, and I even doubt a watch cleaning machine would do a better job. However, be careful to blow everything perfectly dry as soon as possible to avoid the possibility of any rust building up. And, I never use this method for the train wheels as they rust very easily.

[saswatch88]

you can get yourself a jar of one dip for pallet and balance, 2oz bottle will cost you $9. and a bottle of ronsonol lighter fluid for the rest. or use the lighter fluid for everything. you can manually clean after a soak with pegwood, rodico, and fiber brushes. some guys make their own water based concoctions but was never really a fan of water based cleaners, i prefer solvents. they work better at removing old oil if you are not using an ultrasonic.

[yankeedog]

Mineral spirits on everything but hairspring and pallet..let the parts soak.All the crud gets dissolved or falls off.you might want to change it once or twice on a really filthy movement.I put the parts in a small dish inside a biscuit tin so it doesn't evaporate.

Edited March 21, 2019 by yankeedog

[tony1212]

Thank you all for all your tips.

This forum is pleasingly active. You guys helped me get years of experience in just 24hrs!

I can see that like in every trade, everybody experiments and sticks to what work for a specific person, his liking and environment. Thank to your help I'll have the opportunity to make my own experiments.

I already tried to put a flake of shellac in benzine for 3 hours. It came out unchanged. I don't have to do the experiment in IPA or ethanol. I know the answer. These are the solvents that I use when I prepare my wood finishes. (@nickelsilver : thank you for pointing it out. I didn't suspect that)

Please allow me a few more questions :

Is there a risk that the glass fiber brushes leave marks on the metal parts? How to you use them? Liberally or with specific care?

For those who use One Dip, how do you use it? Do you transfer it to a more practical jar to use it and then back to original container?

[nickelsilver]

Glass fiber brushes won't really mark steel, and are effective for removing rust spots. They will mark non steel parts. I only use them on steel and as seldom as possible as the little broken fibers get EVERYWHERE.