Nickel silver plating?

[Angrybear]

Hi all,

Does anyone here have the ability, or know a company that can plate Nickel Silver? Im looking at getting a few watch dials I have made from nickel silver plated with a black rhodium finish. All help gratefully accepted.

[spectre6000]

I didn't know nickel silver was commonly plated. I thought it was its own reasonably decent material, and if you're going to plate you'd use some sort of base metal (i.e. brass). Is there anything special about plating it? Or is the black rhodium (never heard of it, sounds new and expensive) that's the limiting factor?

[Endeavor]

I guess it's either nickel or silver plated ....

Perhaps this may be of some use to you?

 

[nickelsilver]

5 minutes ago, Endeavor said:

I guess it's either nickel or silver plated ....

Perhaps this may be of some use to you?

 

Did I hear my name?

 

Haha,  I kid, I kid. I believe he has a dial made of nickel silver, also known as German silver, or maillechort in French, which is an alloy of copper, nickel, and zinc. The copper content is similar to brass, with the rest half-half nickel and zinc (there are many alloy recipes for it). It's quite white in color, more stain resistant than brass, and as Spectre noted often left in its natural state. I have plated it many times with gold and rhodium, it takes plating very well. I haven't done black rhodium on it but I don't see any issue with it at all.

[Angrybear]

2 hours ago, spectre6000 said:

I didn't know nickel silver was commonly plated. I thought it was its own reasonably decent material, and if you're going to plate you'd use some sort of base metal (i.e. brass). Is there anything special about plating it? Or is the black rhodium (never heard of it, sounds new and expensive) that's the limiting factor?

No idea whether it’s commonly plated, but I know it can be. I’m try to create a watch dial with a particular finish. The idea is to plate the silver dial black, so when the numerals are engraved away there will be a nice contrast between the 2 finishes. 

[Angrybear]

1 hour ago, nickelsilver said:

Did I hear my name?

 

Haha,  I kid, I kid. I believe he has a dial made of nickel silver, also known as German silver, or maillechort in French, which is an alloy of copper, nickel, and zinc. The copper content is similar to brass, with the rest half-half nickel and zinc (there are many alloy recipes for it). It's quite white in color, more stain resistant than brass, and as Spectre noted often left in its natural state. I have plated it many times with gold and rhodium, it takes plating very well. I haven't done black rhodium on it but I don't see any issue with it at all.

Thank you, you’ve nailed it. I’m struggling to find someone that will do it. All the jewellers I’ve contacted will only plate precious metals, and everyone else only seems interested in large volume jobs. I need to find someone that is ‘watchmaker friendly’. 

[Angrybear]

Nickelsilver- do you do this commercially? Where are you based? 

[nickelsilver]

1 hour ago, Angrybear said:

Nickelsilver- do you do this commercially? Where are you based? 

 I do it on a "as need" basis, and have no solutions for black rhodium. Given the price of the last batch of regular rhodium (like triple from a year or two before- thousands) I won't be buying any. There has to be platers who do one-offs though.

[Angrybear]

4 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

 I do it on a "as need" basis, and have no solutions for black rhodium. Given the price of the last batch of regular rhodium (like triple from a year or two before- thousands) I won't be buying any. There has to be platers who do one-offs though.

Does it make any difference if I really ‘need’ it done? Lol

 

ill keep searching. I’m just coming up against lots of really unhelpful plating companies. I’ve sent out well over 30 emails over the last few days and haven’t had a single response. 

[Klassiker]

Maybe try jewellery manufacturers (London, Birmingham) or contact the BHI, or reach out to one of the jewellery or watchmaking schools.

[spectre6000]

You may find you have dueling limiting factors. Plating one offs is not something most commercial outfits are going to be keen on, and when you find someone who will, it'll be sub par quality or cost an arm and a leg. The other factor is this black rhodium stuff. Nickelsilver nailed it, rhodium ain't cheap. Whatever is added to make it [i]black[/i] rhodium undoubtedly dilutes the amount of rhodium involved, but I didn't see much about what's actually in it to make it black. Granted, I didn't look too hard, but it doesn't seem like something everyone and their mom is doing (yet). 

What is it about black rhodium that you're after? If the goal is a high contrast engraving aesthetic, are there viable alternatives? Are there any chemical treatments for nickel silver (can't seem to type that as two words, nickelsilver...) that will color/discolor the surface in even and aesthetically pleasing ways?

[Angrybear]

I’m currently creating my ‘grail’ watch. Something that I’m hoping I will pass down through the generations. Sandblasted metal that has been black rhodium plated is one of those finishes that when seen in the flesh....well, it’s stunning. It’s a shade of grey that I’m not quite sure how else to achieve. I don’t want to paint the dial as I want the frosted finish that I’m putting on the dials to show through. If any one has any suggestions on how to achieve the finish in another way I’m would be very grateful. I also don’t believe paint has any place on a watch dial if I’m brutally honest. 
Here are some photos (stolen from google) of how it looks. 

[Angrybear]

10 hours ago, Klassiker said:

Maybe try jewellery manufacturers (London, Birmingham) or contact the BHI, or reach out to one of the jewellery or watchmaking schools.

Thanks Klassika, always grateful to hear your suggestions. Every jeweller I have contacted thus far doesn’t get involved in plating nickel silver (something about surface preparation). 
I’m sure someone will, I just haven’t found them yet. That’s where I was hoping you guys would come in! 

[Angrybear]

Spectre - maybe I’m missing something obvious, but I genuinely can’t think of another way of achieving this. You guys haven’t heard from me much recently as I’m spending every spare hour in the workshop experimenting with surface finishes. I’ve come so close to just buying the kit to do it myself but Barclaycard seem to be against that idea.