Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Looking a the cog part at the top. I notice that the cog does not actually sit in the gem. It looks flat at the top. Is there supposed to be a point?, that inserts into the gem. Can't tell on the parts sheet. Anyone hep with that information please.

Ross

20220302_160002.jpg

20220302_160027.jpg

Edited by rossjackson01
added photographs
Posted

Hi Ross  LWS is correct the top pivot has broken off , probably due to the bridge being screwed down on it, hence re method of lightly fitting the bridge and continualy checking the fitting     new wheel required.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Posted
1 minute ago, watchweasol said:

hence re method of lightly fitting the bridge and continualy checking the fitting.

Excellent advice.

  • Thanks 1
Posted
1 hour ago, rossjackson01 said:

Looking a the cog part at the top. I notice that the cog does not actually sit in the gem. It looks flat at the top. Is there supposed to be a point?, that inserts into the gem

That is the escape wheel, not balance. The 'cog' is a pinion, the 'gem' an hole jewel. The 'point' is the pivot and of course must be there for the wheel assembly to rotate precisely. As mentioned above already in your case it has snapped due to forcing the bridge down without it being in the hole. 

  • Thanks 1
Posted
14 minutes ago, jdm said:

That is the escape wheel

Generally when I post about a watch part, I get out my exploded view to make sure I call out the parts correctly.  I hate being spanked 🤣

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Posted
51 minutes ago, jdm said:

As mentioned above already in your case it has snapped due to forcing the bridge down without it being in the hole. 

OK new one needed. I'm trying to find one, but no success yet. I did notice when I first obtained the watch, the back was off, the escapement wheel did not move. The balance wheel only partially rotated a few times. I don't think it was me that damaged the escapement However, that's not the point. I believe in the adage, don't fix the blame, fix the problem.

Ross

  • Like 2
Posted
7 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

I did notice when I first obtained the watch, the back was off, the escapement wheel did not move.

That is normal, the pallet fork holds steady the train including the escape wheel, even at full wind, when the balance doesn't swing, or is even removed. With some experience you will become able and used to inspect the condition of of each part while taking the mov.t apart.

  • Thanks 1
Posted

 ETA2789  and  ETA 2789-1  have the same escape wheeel, they differ in complications.

Considering the low shipping costs of what LWS shows, they are not really expensive. Speedtimekolection ships free to Europe. 

 

  • Thanks 1
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

ETA2789  and  ETA 2789-1  have the same escape wheel, they differ in complications.

Considering the low shipping costs of what LWS shows, they are not really expensive. Speedtimekolection ships free to Europe. 

Thank you. I have written to them for information. They supply it with bridge and Pallet fork for 17 or 25 jewel movements. Mine is 21.

Regards

Ross

 

Edited by rossjackson01
Posted
12 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

Thank you. I have written to them for information. They supply it with bridge and Pallet fork for 17 or 25 jewel movements. Mine is 21.

 

All three varants have same cock, regultor device and incabloc settings.  jewel diference is in auto device and end stones. so any of then would fit in your watch.

Google the keyword  """ ETA 2789 ranfft""" ,  Dr ranfft lists in clolumn all variants to the base caliber 2750, on the left are listed all manual wind calibers and automatics on the right.  the first family beat 21600 per hr, the second family of the same generation beat 28800 per hr.  So the balance complete interchanges between 21 jewel and 25 versions, 

So would any other balance as long as it beats the same. namely 21600 and 28800 bph

Good luck pal.

 

  • Like 1
Posted
2 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

All three varants have same cock, regultor device and incabloc settings.  jewel diference is in auto device and end stones. so any of then would fit in your watch.

Google the keyword  """ ETA 2789 ranfft""" ,  Dr ranfft lists in clolumn all variants to the base caliber 2750, on the left are listed all manual wind calibers and automatics on the right.  the first family beat 21600 per hr, the second family of the same generation beat 28800 per hr.  So the balance complete interchanges between 21 jewel and 25 versions, 

So would any other balance as long as it beats the same. namely 21600 and 28800 bph

Good luck pal.

 

Same story for escape wheel.   all 21600 interchange, so would all 28800. 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Posted

Excellent advice. Thank you folks

Nucejoe. I am going to order the ETA 2789  part from Speedtimerkolection, A great site. Will keep you all updated.

Note. I appreciate the comments on nomenclature. I am learning, Slowly, and it is comments from yourselves that really does help. I take no offence for the nudges. I have mild dyslexia in that when I read a technical book about a subject, I have great difficulty in dissimilating the information. Had read a few books about watches and hardly anything sticks. 

However, the videos and comments from members is really helping. I will get there. Honest.

Regards to all.

Ross

  • Like 1
Posted

Hi Ross,

 You already have acheived a great deal, actually the movement itself is a good teacher, by the time this project of your is finished, you will have acquired plenty of knowledge and no book can teach the dexterity you gain along the way. A couple of more projects and you gain much confidence.

All the best.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1
Posted (edited)

Thank you for the information. Looked at Ranftt for information on ETA 2789 and ETA 279-1. They do appear to be the same. I contacted Speedtimerskolection who could not help. However, I'm sure you members are correct. I've ordered the set of Escape wheel, Pallet fork and bridge. 

I'm sure I'll cock up at some stage. But as commented. It's a great learning curve. 

Really enjoying myself. Days are smiles.

Regards

Ross

Edited by rossjackson01
spelling
  • Like 1
Posted

Found the problem. Only after I tried to fit the escape wheel and it snapped the pivot, ordered another.

The problem is, as noted by one of Mark Lovick's videos, the pivot of the original escape wheel is broken and stuck into the Gem. 

Therefore I need to remove the pivot. Don't have the skill. Or, buy another main plate. Probable option.

Before finding the problem I had just purchase the movement bridge, thinking it was the top gem of the escape wheel that was problematic. . Heck! Look before you leap, comes to mind. Ah well.

Regards

Ross

 

20220311_074502.jpg

20220311_074533.jpg

Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, rossjackson01 said:

the pivot of the original escape wheel is broken and stuck into the Gem

Can you poke it out? I made a very fine needle out of an old oiler by polishing it on 3M lapping film. I guess any very fine grit wet and dry emery paper would work as well. I mostly use this oiler needle to poke out peg wood that occasionally gets stuck inside jewel holes when pegging.

If it doesn't work to poke the pivot out, you could of course replace the jewel, but that would of course require a set of pretty expensive tools.

 

Edited by VWatchie
  • Thanks 1
Posted
1 hour ago, VWatchie said:

Can you poke it out?

I've completely stripped the movement. Looking at the movement through a x20 eye piece, now can't see the pivot. Maybe it has come out, maybe it hasn't. Not sure if I am fully competent to know. However, for £6.50 I can get a replacement movement. Rather do that. Ordered an hour ago.

This hobby is so engrossing, interesting.

Regards

Ross

Posted
5 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

Looking at the movement through a x20 eye piece, now can't see the pivot.

Let me put it like this. I'm not super surprised, as pivots always have at least a slight side-shake. 😉

5 hours ago, rossjackson01 said:

This hobby is so engrossing, interesting.

Indeed! It makes me happy (and sometimes extremely frustrated).

  • 3 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

Would you believe it? Found the problem. Poor photograph, but hope you can see. The gem in the 2nd wheel was lose. Every time I tried to put the bridge on it would not settle. I had screwed it down and it broke the pin on the escapement wheel. On my third escapement wheel now. I looked with my x25 and saw the gem move when I touched it. As can be seen it rotated. The 2nd wheel did not site. I have obtained a new bridge. It took an hour to site it correctly. All the wheels now rotate. Whew? 

Just finished the keyless works. Put it way for the day. Will come back tomorrow.

I don't have the skill or equipment to secure the gem.20220327_131228.thumb.jpg.6efa4dd67a3c28de740f38a7db7316ae.jpg

Edited by rossjackson01
grammar
Posted

I bought a spare Wittnauer Revue 79 movement for the balance assembly.  Mine had a completely missing hairspring and I missed that in the auction...rooky mistake.  The spare was advertised as having a "wobbly staff" which is scary if your getting it for the balance assembly.  When I tore it down, I found this pivot...which was impressive and made me feel much better about the balance.  Anyway, my watch is fixed and wonderful!

20220222_195916.JPG

20220223_170917541_iOS.jpg

  • Like 2
Posted (edited)

Just completed a rebuild. Everything except the balance. Could not get it to oscillate. On the other side, the month plate I did not install as I could not figure how to move the spring.  Anyway, to learn and practice, I have just removed all the calendar works, keyless works, Escapement bridge and palate fork. I  have left the train of wheels and escapement wheel in place. I will now do a rebuild again.

Practice makes ....

Don't you just love it when a plan, ...almost... comes together.

Getting there.

Regards

Ross

Edited by rossjackson01
spelling
Posted (edited)

Wow! What a learning curve. 3 strip downs. Could not get the wheels to turn. Finally, after watching a video a number of times I realised that I was not getting the click to be operated on the crown wheel which is on the barrel spring. I had just been placing the crown wheel onto the barrel. No adjustment to make the click operate. Aagh! All the videos of this particular movement are accompanied with music. No verbal's. Got there. The main spring now winds. I can move the Pallet fork and the escapement operates. 

As a novice. It is such a sense of achievement. Felt I had to tell you all. Sorry to be a bore.

Regards

Ross

Edited by rossjackson01
grammar
  • Like 2



  • Recently Browsing

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Hi guys. @VWatchie Those images are self hosted (not hosted on this server). Do a look at the page source and you will see this. I’m afraid, I can’t have control or backup images not hosted on this server. ( They seem to be served from here: https://qehvsw.bn.files.1drv.com/) This server is backed up fully every night and the database is backed up and versioned every hour, all stored off site on Amazon S1 platform. It’s hard for us to lose data. Ive got a huge overhead of space on this particular server the site is served from so no worries there 🙂 Sorry all for lack of response so far, I have been extremely busy and am embarrassed to say that priorities had to be set in place for a while.  Be assured that i’ve got constant monitoring and alerts should the site be in an extended problematic state (down etc) and work on these issues if they arise.
    • Web sites are cheap. Message board are easy. Hosting both is less than 100 usd a year and small advertising would cover most of that.  In the discord group we did some 15 min poc and threw up a couple of different message boards on a domain i host.   The real value is the data / information / hive mind While I'm a rank amateur in watch repair the information and assistance on this board is invaluable. The members on here are friendly, entertaining and a wealth of knowledge This is what needs to be preserved  --Jeff
    • The post below contains the link. If you don't already have a discord account it will take you to the registration screen.  Registration is free.   https://www.watchrepairtalk.com/topic/31653-mark/?do=findComment&comment=279066
    • HWGIKE#57 Valex FEF 190 15 jewels Swiss lever full service and repair This one was waiting for a balance staff replacement in my cabinet parts and case cleaned up with a new balance staff and a 4th wheel as the original 4th wheel had a broken pivot for the off center second hand. I never attempted a balance staff replacement before however I received a Bergeon Molfres (i was hunting it for about 2 years) and with the help of it I managed to remove the old staff and riveted the new one in. It also received a new MS, crystal and the hole for the MS arbor was also tightened. With the new MS now it has an acceptable performance meaning that the amplitude goes up to 280 fully wound, has an acceptable beat error and I have the two nice lines but only dial up, dial down is not as nice and I could not figure out as why. I have the two lines but the amplitude is dropping to around 230 and the lines are a bit hairy. Both dial up and dial down the lines just go up and down without seemingly any pattern. I cleaned the movement two times, and then a 3rd time pegged out the main plate and train bridge holes but made no change. Both the HS collet and the roller table was too lose on the new staff... I did not count how many times I took the balance cock off to sort out the HS collet, the roller table and the beat error, somebody before me also shortened the HS by pushing it out a bit and it seems every time somebody is messing with the end of the HS the protruding bit is most of the time twisted bent etc. This one was probably one of the most challenging repair and service. I might take the new MS out and clean it lubricate it as I just pushed the new one in to the barrel from the retaining ring. Plus started to re-read the theory of the escapement and how to analyse the graph on the timing machine: Greiner Chronografic Record manual. I am also thinking to put the watch on a 24 hour long run with the eTimer SW it once helped me to figure out what was wrong with a watch. There is an interesting part of the Greiner record manual talking about the pallets and the end shake of the balance and pallet staff. Maybe this is my issue? Who could that possibly identify? After a few years now I am still without a clue how could watchmakers make parts I can only see with my microscope or how could/can they carry out complicated services impossible to do.. real magic..... .... ..... before I sent this post while the pics were uploading I had an idea, i was browsing the possible outcomes on the timing machine I had one for magnetism..... so I demagnetized the movement and it is not hairy now.... two really nice lines 0.2 ms beat error still a bit wavy, but a lot lot better..... argh....  
    • Hi there, welcome here.  
×
×
  • Create New...