Quality Chinese Tools

[LittleWatchShop]

On 10/23/2022 at 3:42 PM, VWatchie said:

I wasn't even aware there was such a tool so thanks for sharing! The only tool I've seen for this purpose is a presto tool as seen in the below picture.

Bergeon 4344.9 - "Presto" Tools

Bergeon designed those nylon pushers so that they would split and break so you can buy a new one.

Edited November 2, 2022 by LittleWatchShop

[JohnFrum]

On 3/22/2022 at 7:08 AM, Paul80 said:

Next up is a Basic Staking set

The only thing to note is that the Stakes cannot be used inverted, if that is an issue than something from Bergeon etc may be your only option.

 

Given that this is a clone of the Bergeon 5285, would the 5285S Base, available separately, fit the Chinese clone and allow inverted stake use? Or better yet, is a clone base available?

Edited November 9, 2022 by JohnFrum

[GuyMontag]

I picked up one of these Bergeon knock off crystal removing pumps for less than $10 delivered from Aliexpress. It worked on the one case I tried it on, but it took a number of tries. I got it to work by pushing the plunger very fast. Using a moderate and slow force didn't work, it had to be a fast with a lot of force. In its favor, I tried using just a large medical syringe with the same plastic bag I used in the video and had no luck.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2022 by GuyMontag

[HectorLooi]

8 minutes ago, GuyMontag said:

I picked up one of these Bergeon knock off crystal removing pumps for less than $10 delivered from Aliexpress. It worked on the one case I tried it on, but it took a number of tries. I got it to work by pushing the plunger very fast. Using a moderate and slow force didn't work, it had to be a fast with a lot of force. In its favor, I tried using just a large medical syringe with the same plastic bag I used in the video and had no luck.

Did you manage to get an airtight seal on the case tube? Could you get any back pressure when pushing on the plunger? If there is a leak in the case seal, it might not be able to build up enough pressure in the case to pop off the crystal.

I usually use a 5ml or 10ml syringe. If there is improper seal, I'll use a plastic bag over the case tube trick or place a oring on the case tube.

Recently I read somewhere, maybe on this forum, that someone recommended sticking a piece of double sided tape on the table and sticking the crystal to it, then pulling on the watch straps to get the crystal off.

Or you could bring it to your clinic and use the triple syringe and blow air into the case tube. Just make sure you press the air button and not the water.

[GuyMontag]

I actually don't think I can get an air tight seal on the tool itself. If I cover and seal the end of the plastic tip with a finger and then push on the plunger, it should only be able to be pushed a tiny amount before not being able to be pushed any further. However, when I do this I can hear air leaking from the tool. It does generate some back pressure, but not like with a medial syringe. I think this is why I had to go very fast with a lot of force, so that I was moving more air into the case than was escaping from the tool.

Ha, I didn't even think of using a compressor, gonna file that one away

 

 

[GuyMontag]

I've got some more Aliexpress items on the way, and not sure if this qualifies for a "tool", but these spring bars a really good deal. I got 100 x 5 different sizes for 500 spring bars delivered (free shipping) for less than $12. They have worked great so far.

 

[JohnFrum]

AliExpress balance tool (50 USD) - roller removal, staff riveting etc

 

[Neverenoughwatches]

1 hour ago, JohnFrum said:

AliExpress balance tool (50 USD) - roller removal, staff riveting etc

 

Eyup John. Do you have this yet?  Thoughts on it ?

[JohnFrum]

4 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Eyup John. Do you have this yet?  Thoughts on it ?

On its way from the Middle Kingdom.

Note there are two versions of this tool. The ‘updated’ one has four additional 2.x diameter holes.

Bought nine Seiko 1104a non running movements for practice (about 2 USD apiece) from Speedtimer Kollektion, two working 1104 watches on Yahoo Japan auction (850 Yen each), and some NOS 1104a parts - balance staffs,  rollers, barrel and arbor etc. Planning to learn balance staff replacement, hair spring manipulation etc on them. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by JohnFrum

[Neverenoughwatches]

2 hours ago, JohnFrum said:

On its way from the Middle Kingdom.

Note there are two versions of this tool. The ‘updated’ one has four additional 2.x diameter holes.

Bought nine Seiko 1104a non running movements for practice (about 2 USD apiece) from Speedtimer Kollektion, two working 1104 watches on Yahoo Japan auction (850 Yen each), and some NOS 1104a parts - balance staffs,  rollers, barrel and arbor etc. Planning to learn balance staff replacement, hair spring manipulation etc on them. 

I noticed a difference on the underside of the base, one type had no holes. Be noce to know how you get on . Very good skills to learn.

[JohnFrum]

On 11/14/2022 at 9:00 AM, Neverenoughwatches said:

Eyup John. Do you have this yet?  Thoughts on it ?

Finally got it today. Just removed the roller table from the balance staff of a Seiko 1104a using the platax type notches and the smallest of the 4 stakes (0.15). 
Took the balance staff off the collet and wheel using the same stake and one of the platform holes. 

Build quality is good IMHO. 
 

Trying to figure out what this is used for :

Edited December 9, 2022 by JohnFrum

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 hours ago, JohnFrum said:

Finally got it today. Just removed the roller table from the balance staff of a Seiko 1104a using the platax type notches and the smallest of the 4 stakes (0.15). 
Took the balance staff off the collet and wheel using the same stake and one of the platform holes. 

Build quality is good IMHO. 
 

Trying to figure out what this is used for :

How do you think the roller and staff removal went ? Can you see any extra damage to the roller or balance wheel ?  The only downside i can to this at the moment is not having a stake holder to keep things perpendicular.  The underside looks a little like its for tighening a cannon pinion, do they screw in and out ? Ah no extra accessories held in the a grub screw, maybe the notched anvil fits into the base, i wonder does the pin fit into one of the stakes ?

Edited December 9, 2022 by Neverenoughwatches

[JohnFrum]

2 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

How do you think the roller and staff removal went ? Can you see any extra damage to the roller or balance wheel ?  The only downside i can to this at the moment is not having a stake holder to keep things perpendicular.  The underside looks a little like its for tighening a cannon pinion, do they screw in and out ? Ah no extra accessories held in the a grub screw, maybe the notched anvil fits into the base, i wonder does the pin fit into one of the stakes ?

Surprisingly well for such delicate parts, the lack of a stake holder as you noted, and it being the first time I tried doing something like this. No apparent damage when I inspected them under the microscope. That staff has a rusted and broken pivot on the roller end but the other end was fine and survived the stake application. 
The underside bits do screw in and out. The notched anvil can be rotated if the small 1.5 hex grub screw in the base surface is first loosened. It can then be advanced/retracted by turning a larger 3.0 hex grub on the side. The spike is advanced/retracted using the slotted screw on its side. Here you can see the hex grub screws for the notched anvil. Will insert a cannon pinion and see how it goes. That does appear to be the most likely use of these bits. 

[Birbdad]

On 3/25/2022 at 8:22 AM, Paul80 said:

Next up is a cheap but still quality tool

A Crystal Press found at the link below for only £38

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32974408612.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.666c5b22pOlc91&algo_pvid=89ce2c17-ff1a-437d-9412-8c071e9cdb4d&algo_exp_id=89ce2c17-ff1a-437d-9412-8c071e9cdb4d-1&pdp_ext_f={"sku_id"%3A"66707322604"}&pdp_pi=-1%3B38.01%3B-1%3B-1%40salePrice%3BGBP%3Bsearch-mainSearch

A very well made tool especially given the price, comes with a good selection of plastic (Dies/Dyes) and is of a very solid construction, offering a two speed screw system which quickly opens or closes the press until pressue is applied it then switches to the finer tread to applie the required pressure.

My copy is in full allignment and because the vertical polls are so thick at approx 20mm there is zero flex when pressure is applied.

All Chromes Steel or Red Anodised Alluminium.

A quality product that is well worth the asking price and actually worth a lot more.

How is this holding up? Still good to go? I've heard VERY mixed things about this particular press, some say it's great, others say it's worthless.

Does anybody have an experience with this specific press? https://www.esslinger.com/esslinger-deluxe-watch-case-closing-press-with-full-die-set/
Was pointed to it from elsewhere and they were saying it's a copy of the "BB crystal press" that they bought the rights to it or something. After destroying one of those garbage chinese presses (Even so much force it bent the handle it still couldn't QUITE set the crystal 100%, more like 98% on one side. Infuriating.) pretty much the 2nd time i used it i'm looking for budget offerings, as cheap as possible that can get the job done and this is a bit much but doable in the future. I'm assuming it's made in china because it would probably say if it wasn't.

A couple people are urging me to buy it but nobody seems to have actually used one yet.



ALso not sure if i posted here already but I've now used this on a bunch of disassembles. https://www.esslinger.com/watch-cannon-pinion-and-watch-hand-remover-tool/ I had already bought and returned a different cheap chinese one and it was junk but this one is pretty solid and it seems to work fine if you're on a budget.

Edited December 18, 2022 by Birbdad

[dadistic]

As I mentioned in another thread,  I have one of these and it works well enough for me. I have got two or three of the lever types still hanging around, and I never use them.  I'd be interested in why someone would have a poor opinion of this tool.  It is sturdy enough that the design doesn't seem to be a drawback, I have yet to catch it flexing under load. Having the two screw stages, course for positioning then fine for pressing, is very nice. 

Then again, I haven't had the pleasure of using any of the really good high end presses.  And no, this is not a BB style,  that is a lever press.  This one resembles a Horotec press.  

Cheers!

[HectorLooi]

I don't have this exact model but an earlier version.

The quality control was not very good and the top and bottom dies were not properly aligned. This resulted in several broken mineral glass crystals. 

I removed the upper plate and filed the holes for the pillars to align the axes of the dies properly and now it works fine.

The finish quality and materials used are quite good. I never experienced any flexing of the setup, even though the screw press axis is not in line with the pillars.

Overall, I think it's good value for money. Provided that any QC lapses can be easily fixed.

In general, I would say Chinese tools are 90% OK, 90% of the time. You'll have the 9% which can be corrected with a little effort. And that last 1% is either junk or exceptional.

[Birbdad]

4 hours ago, dadistic said:

As I mentioned in another thread,  I have one of these and it works well enough for me. I have got two or three of the lever types still hanging around, and I never use them.  I'd be interested in why someone would have a poor opinion of this tool.  It is sturdy enough that the design doesn't seem to be a drawback, I have yet to catch it flexing under load. Having the two screw stages, course for positioning then fine for pressing, is very nice. 

Then again, I haven't had the pleasure of using any of the really good high end presses.  And no, this is not a BB style,  that is a lever press.  This one resembles a Horotec press.  

Cheers!

Oh i was talking about two separate presses. 
I was asking about the chinese screw type press which is similar to the horotec.

I also asked about the one in the esslinger link is a lever press that apparently is a copy of some discontinued press made by some company called BB which was highly regarded. I've found some of their die sets for sale online and it looks to be from the 70's or 80's. Not sure if we're talking about the same thing. I've found pictures of these original bb presses and they were lever presses but i guess they were VERY nice ones. 

EDIT: Here's a picture of an original BB press. It sure does look like a copy of it. People say the original presses were as good as anything from bergeon. If these new ones truly are an exact copy then they might be one of the better deals on a high end press.


Good to know the screw down is still working for you. THe main complaints i've heard about the thing are a pin that is necessary for proper allignment breaking and making the tool unusuable and it coming poorly fitted and lopsided from the factory with the top and bottom posts not lining up properly making it basically impossible to fully seat the crystals. I've also heard from some people that they work fine but take a bit of finesse I might pick one up from amazon, if it doesn't work i can just return it. Thanks guy!
 

 

1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

I don't have this exact model but an earlier version.

The quality control was not very good and the top and bottom dies were not properly aligned. This resulted in several broken mineral glass crystals. 

I removed the upper plate and filed the holes for the pillars to align the axes of the dies properly and now it works fine.

The finish quality and materials used are quite good. I never experienced any flexing of the setup, even though the screw press axis is not in line with the pillars.

Overall, I think it's good value for money. Provided that any QC lapses can be easily fixed.

In general, I would say Chinese tools are 90% OK, 90% of the time. You'll have the 9% which can be corrected with a little effort. And that last 1% is either junk or exceptional.

Hmm, i'll have to get it and see just what you're referring to. If i get one and have this issue is it ok if i PM i fi can't figure out how to do this fix? Other people had this complaint about improper allignment.

Edited December 19, 2022 by Birbdad

[HectorLooi]

37 minutes ago, Birbdad said:

If i get one and have this issue is it ok if i PM i fi can't figure out how to do this fix?

Sure. I'll be glad to be of help.

Or we can create a new thread on how to align a Chinese crystal press. That would be useful to all new member who may have the same issue.

[Birbdad]

1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

Sure. I'll be glad to be of help.

Or we can create a new thread on how to align a Chinese crystal press. That would be useful to all new member who may have the same issue.

Would be a service. A lot of people own these things. Go for it.

[JohnFrum]

11 USD AliExpress copy of the original 60 GBP Bergeon hairspring holder tool

Glass and Aluminum 

And a balance holding tool similar to the plastic Bergeon one but in brass with a lower platform for the cock for ease of handling. 
 

On 12/18/2022 at 11:49 PM, HectorLooi said:

Sure. I'll be glad to be of help.

Or we can create a new thread on how to align a Chinese crystal press. That would be useful to all new member who may have the same issue.

That would be great. 
I have one of these and the top and bottom are not parallel

[HectorLooi]

59 minutes ago, JohnFrum said:

I have one of these and the top and bottom are not parallel

Can you post some photos?

[JohnFrum]

12 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

Can you post some photos?

[HectorLooi]

That's considered very good. You could probably loosen the screws of the posts and try getting it better.

Have a look at mine in its original state.

[JohnFrum]

42 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

That's considered very good. You could probably loosen the screws of the posts and try getting it better.

Have a look at mine in its original state.

 

 

That must have taken quite a bit of work to correct

[VWatchie]

12 hours ago, JohnFrum said:

And a balance holding tool similar to the plastic Bergeon one but in brass with a lower platform for the cock for ease of handling. 

I've seen the Bergeon version but never figured out what this type of tool is used for. Anyone?