Quality Chinese Tools

[Knebo]

Thanks for sharing! 

I've actually decided to send it back. 

And took another chance to buy a similar press from AliX again, this time from the relatively well-known clone brand Vevor. Here: https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005003020605988.html

It's slightly more expensive, but there ARE differences at least in the details (and hopefully in the main headstock/shaft, too). 

I'll report back when I get it this Friday. 

 

[mikepilk]

What are the differences? I'd be surprised if there was more than one factory making these. They all looked the same to me so I just bought the cheapest. 

The one you link to seems to say "Key of Watch" on the side of the base, which is what it says on mine.

I've now managed to remove almost all play in the shaft, and by adding washers and playing with the grub screws, most play in the adjustable jaws.

EDIT

Just an update for anyone with one of these Chinese tools :  On mine, there was play in the jaw holder as the screw (1) was lose. The only remaining play was in the brass fitting holders. The locking screws (2) should lock these solidly in place, but I found that they didn't.  I fitted a washer under each screw head, and now the brass holders lock solidly in place.  I now have a tool with no significant play.

Edited October 2, 2024 by mikepilk

[Knebo]

2 hours ago, mikepilk said:

What are the differences?

In direct comparison to the one I sent back:

1. The thread here is much finer (this is what you pointed out regarding the Bergeon tool)

2. The tightening knob/screw here seems to be of metal. Min was a very flimsy plastic one.

3. The lock nut looks different from mine (but this may just be cosmetic).

 

2 hours ago, mikepilk said:

The one you link to seems to say "Key of Watch" on the side of the base, which is what it says on mine

That's true. Well, I'll soon see if there's a tangible difference. I'll let you know. The tracking say that it'll arrive on Friday.

[mikepilk]

The thread does look finer. The tightening knob (2) on mine is metal. 

It may be that the frame casting is made by one company, then other companies make their own bits.  I'll be interested to hear how it compares.

I've managed to tweak mine so that the only noticeable play is at the brass fittings in the head, but once tightened on to a case, shouldn't be a problem.

[VWatchie]

6 hours ago, Knebo said:

And took another chance to buy a similar press from AliX again, this time from the relatively well-known clone brand Vevor.

I got this Vevor tool not long ago, although with the adapter and the Rolex dies (for not much extra), it has worked very well and didn't require any modifications or adjustments so it will stay.

[mikepilk]

11 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

I got this Vevor tool not long ago, although with the adapter and the Rolex dies (for not much extra), it has worked very well and didn't require any modifications or adjustments so it will stay.

I would have put money on you having the Bergeon one @VWatchie 

I guess it's just luck on what turns up. It's hard to tell from the pics.  Mine has taken some tweaking, but is now working very well. I'm just waiting on a nice challenging watch to try it on.

Even with the Bergeon one, the case is not held absolutely securely, so there is always a bit of wriggle room/play.

Edited October 2, 2024 by mikepilk

[VWatchie]

10 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I would have put money on you having the Bergeon one @VWatchie 

I wish!  The truth is I, like most other people, have a limited budget! 

11 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I guess it's just luck on what turns up

I think you are absolutely right about that. Unlike when ordering Swiss-quality tools (most of the time) it's mostly a hit or a miss. Either way, Chinese tools won't ruin you, and often enough they are good enough even if a bit of modification or adjustment is required.

[Knebo]

38 minutes ago, VWatchie said:

I got this Vevor tool not long ago, although with the adapter and the Rolex dies (for not much extra), it has worked very well and didn't require any modifications or adjustments so it will stay.

You post has me giddy in hopeful anticipation of the delivery this Friday

Hopefully, I won't be disappointed. Well, otherwise, I'll take from @mikepilk 's wisdom.

[VWatchie]

16 minutes ago, Knebo said:

You post has me giddy in hopeful anticipation of the delivery this Friday

I'll keep my fingers crossed  it won't disappoint you. Unfortunately, as already discussed, with Chinese tools, you can never be quite sure. I wouldn't be surprised to learn they are all manufactured in the same factory as @mikepilk mentioned. However, it's my impression that Vevor wants to build a good reputation and has decent QC.

Edited October 2, 2024 by VWatchie

[tomh207]

46 minutes ago, mikepilk said:

I would have put money on you having the Bergeon one @VWatchie 

I guess it's just luck on what turns up. It's hard to tell from the pics.  Mine has taken some tweaking, but is now working very well. I'm just waiting on a nice challenging watch to try it on.

Even with the Bergeon one, the case is not held absolutely securely, so there is always a bit of wriggle room/play.

I had to adjust mine a bit too Mike. I got it because of the screw on back of a rotary watch that wouldn’t budge using ball, cheap jaxa or the horotec t-bar one. It took it off in a jiffy almost as if the back wasn’t tight at all. I don’t think you will have any problems with any screw down back.

 

Tom

[mbwatch]

I had been meaning to add this. I picked up this hand hole size gauge which I presume to be a Chinese copy of the Bergeon tool. I bought it from Esslinger for about $35 and have never seen it sold anywhere else. Though I have seen the "Swiss Quality" marking on some other alix tools.

Is it good enough? Probably yes. I measured a couple of pocket watch hands and they measured about 0.02mm smaller on the mandrel than I would have expected them to actually be (based on the diameters of the cannon pinions) but I think that's probably fine for almost all friction fit hands.

It did come highly magnetized out of the box. I don't think that was intentional.

The hand pictured below fits a 115 cannon pinion, but ignoring the photo parallax showed about 112-113 on the gauge. I suppose I could probably put a micrometer against the graduations and see how good they are.

[AndyGSi]

18 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

I had been meaning to add this. I picked up this hand hole size gauge which I presume to be a Chinese copy of the Bergeon tool. I bought it from Esslinger for about $35 and have never seen it sold anywhere else.

I presume the Bergeon are a lot more expensive in the states.

[mbwatch]

12 minutes ago, AndyGSi said:

I presume the Bergeon are a lot more expensive in the states.

Somewhat more expensive - $60 USD / ~£45 at Esslinger and usually around $70 and up from various others & ebay. Not a terribly expensive tool, but also not one where I need Swiss precision. Ballpark is good enough to sort through my huge stash of pocket watch hands.

Unfortunately neither of them measures >200 because 18 size American watch hour hands can be more like 220-260.

Edited October 2, 2024 by mbwatch

[Razz]

9 hours ago, Knebo said:

In direct comparison to the one I sent back:

1. The thread here is much finer (this is what you pointed out regarding the Bergeon tool)

2. The tightening knob/screw here seems to be of metal. Min was a very flimsy plastic one.

3. The lock nut looks different from mine (but this may just be cosmetic).

 

That's true. Well, I'll soon see if there's a tangible difference. I'll let you know. The tracking say that it'll arrive on Friday.

I guess i got lucky and very little play and works fine.  A few.minor differences the locking nut (3 above) on mine is knurled and metal of some sort...

[clockboy]

Chinese tools is a regular debate on this forum. In my experience having purchased some they are OK BUT there is a compromise in terms of build quality and materials used to make them. 
For an amateur they are fine but for a pro who will be at his/her workbench all day accurate quality Swiss tools are essential. Fiddling with a tool to make it work is just not an option. 

[mikepilk]

I totally agree with you @clockboy. If I was doing this for a living, I would be buying better quality tools. For the likes of me, time is not money, I enjoy fiddling and fettling tools.  So for a case removal tool, which I may only use once a month, I'd rather fettle a £60 tool than pay £1200.

[praezis]

To answer a question from above: The original tool shows very little wiggling, a bit more when the threaded range is involved. But for this tool a tight tolerance of the arbor seems not essential.

Frank

[Knebo]

55 minutes ago, praezis said:

To answer a question from above: The original tool shows very little wiggling, a bit more when the threaded range is involved. But for this tool a tight tolerance of the arbor seems not essential.

Frank

Thanks for that! Good to know. 

[Malocchio]

Mine has very little play too. I think it was the cheapest I could find at 50 EUR including shipping. Metal knob so maybe it's a sign to look for. It came with the Rolex attachments lol.

 

[mikepilk]

The good news is that the case opening bits for these Chinese tools are a common size with Bergeon and Horotec (according to Cousins https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/case-opening-bits ). I expect the Chinese ones are quite soft and won't last long. I've only ever used the square one. Not sure what all the others are for.

 

[GuyMontag]

3 hours ago, mikepilk said:

The good news is that the case opening bits for these Chinese tools are a common size with Bergeon and Horotec (according to Cousins https://www.cousinsuk.com/product/case-opening-bits ). I expect the Chinese ones are quite soft and won't last long. I've only ever used the square one. Not sure what all the others are for.

 

I picked up a spare set made of stainless steel for $20 from Aliexpress.

[Knebo]

Hello all, 

I'm happy to report that the new case opening tool from Vevor is much better. The lateral play is minimal and feels just right. 

Funnily, it doesn't look like the one on their website. Literally none of these three points (from the pic on their website) actually applies (except Point 2 - it is metal, but a different colour):

On 10/2/2024 at 2:39 PM, Knebo said:

In direct comparison to the one I sent back:

1. The thread here is much finer (this is what you pointed out regarding the Bergeon tool)

2. The tightening knob/screw here seems to be of metal. Min was a very flimsy plastic one.

3. The lock nut looks different from mine (but this may just be cosmetic).

 

It looks, however, much like the one posted by @Malocchio

Here are two photos:

 

From the initial inspection, I'm very content. I'm glad to have sent back the other one, which was inferior to this one. 

[mikepilk]

9 minutes ago, Knebo said:

Funnily, it doesn't look like the one on their website. Literally none of these three points (from the pic on their website) actually applies (except Point 2 - it is metal, but a different colour):

That's the problem with AliExpress. It's a gamble as to what you will get.

From your pics, it looks just like the one I have (apart from a different handle). 

I think some of the play in mine came about due to bad packaging, resulting in the broken handle and bent frame.

[Malocchio]

57 minutes ago, Knebo said:

It looks, however, much like the one posted by @Malocchio

I'm not sure if we understood each other correctly but I tried to tell that I'm happy with mine. No plastic knob, not too much play. Seems like a good buy.

[Knebo]

12 minutes ago, Malocchio said:

I'm not sure if we understood each other correctly but I tried to tell that I'm happy with mine. No plastic knob, not too much play. Seems like a good buy.

Yes, it was clear: You are happy. My new one looks like yours. I'm also happy with the new one