Quality Chinese Tools

[transporter]

Well here's my two penneth worth, Bench mats, now I have used a hobby cutting mate and then rectangular foam squares bought from Hobbycraft for years, but i thought I would treat myself to a Bergeon Plastic mat from cousins, well I'm dissapointed to say the least, I have moved it to my machining bench where it will live out its days.

Onto Aliexpress and i find a dealer selling Horotec bench mats for £8,95 plus postage ( bit cheeky ) but for £20 all in I thought i'd take punt and see what comes,  Well I wasn't disappointed, even beat a part I'd ordered from the states via UPS first class. Anyway, its exactly the same as a genuine one, I know this as my mentor has one and I had to do a comparison.

the seller name is Shop1102893212 Store and they currently have a 4.8 rating so not bad.

[mikepilk]

After trying different types of mat, I found the best (and cheapest) is a piece of vinyl flooring. It's quite firm with just the right amount of flex in the surface.

(BTW I think the chance of those mats on Ali being genuine Horotec as being about 0.01%)

 

Edited December 16, 2024 by mikepilk

[Paul80]

Just had a bit of a bizarre incident buying from China, as you all know I do like my Chinese watch tools and a week ago I placed about 10 orders from different sellers on Aliexpress whom I have been buying from gor years.

Included in that order was the bench mat mentioned above from the same seller.

All packages were marked as shipped and tracking started, then a few days later the trackers cancelled the delivery and sent all ten parcels back to Aliexpress who promptly refunded me, all it said on line was that there was a problem in the delivery country so they could not send them to UK.

Very odd and annoying as most of the things I ordered have now gone up in price should I wish to try again.

Anyone else have any issues 

[HectorLooi]

46 minutes ago, Paul80 said:

Anyone else have any issues 

Yes, I had a few packages cancelled and refunded. No reason was given, so I can't tell which items can't be sent to me. And was it stopped by China customs or my own country's customs.

Sometimes I put items in my cart, then find that they have disappeared, with a message in red saying that the item cannot be exported to my address. Really strange. None of the items were prohibited in my country.

[AndyGSi]

58 minutes ago, Paul80 said:

Just had a bit of a bizarre incident buying from China, as you all know I do like my Chinese watch tools and a week ago I placed about 10 orders from different sellers on Aliexpress whom I have been buying from gor years.

Included in that order was the bench mat mentioned above from the same seller.

All packages were marked as shipped and tracking started, then a few days later the trackers cancelled the delivery and sent all ten parcels back to Aliexpress who promptly refunded me, all it said on line was that there was a problem in the delivery country so they could not send them to UK.

Very odd and annoying as most of the things I ordered have now gone up in price should I wish to try again.

Anyone else have any issues 

I had this once with a lume kit.

[HectorLooi]

And if I order the same item from a different supplier, it reaches me with no problem.

[Malocchio]

There was talk about caseback openers a while ago. I already got the Bergeon copy but because I'm a sucker for old and heavy tools I also pulled the trigger on an MKS 220. The Chinese one isn't bad for the price but this Japanese is like a tank. Very heavy and robust, cast iron frame and the "locking nut" is also steel. Tight tolerances. I'm still waiting for some brand new case holders and opening bits (the tool is still made as model 22020) but I'm already very impressed. I paid like 40€ for the frame and the rest will cost about 80€. Plus import fees and shipping. There's also quite a big difference in size.

 

Edited December 19, 2024 by Malocchio

[mikepilk]

1 hour ago, Malocchio said:

The Chinese one isn't bad for the price but this Japanese is like a tank. 

It looks like that Japanese one could open a tank 

I have a cheap Chinese one. With some tweaking (e.g. shimming the hole in the frame with brass sheet) I've reduced the play to minimal. 

But I find the problem is holding the case absolutely flat and centred. Even with a £££ Bergeon etc, this must still this problem(?). In fact, I find a touch of play at the opening bits, actually helps when not exactly centred.

[Malocchio]

1 hour ago, mikepilk said:

But I find the problem is holding the case absolutely flat and centred. Even with a £££ Bergeon etc, this must still this problem(?). In fact, I find a touch of play at the opening bits, actually helps when not exactly centred.

I find it weird that there's nothing to support the case from below like in this Seiko S-210 with screwable base.

[gpraceman]

Has anyone tried one of these screwdriver sharpeners?

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806811524218.html

Edited December 21, 2024 by gpraceman

[ClaudioCavalli]

22 hours ago, gpraceman said:

Has anyone tried one of these screwdriver sharpeners?

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806811524218.html

I was quite interested in this tool as well.  What I find interesting is, it seems this tool holds the screwdriver by the blade itself.  As far as I can see, the Horotec  version (which is a lot more expensive) holds the screwdriver by the handle.  I would imagine that with smaller blades this would be better as it would prevent the blade from flexing.  However, this might not be as big a problem as I may think.

But of course the quality of the tool will also impact the result.

Edited December 21, 2024 by ClaudioCavalli

[clockboy]

It’s a copy of the horotec screwdriver sharpener., I use the horotec and its excellent. As always with Chinese tools it’s the build quality and materials used define if they are good.. The only way to find out is to purchase.

Edited December 22, 2024 by clockboy

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 12/21/2024 at 1:52 AM, gpraceman said:

Has anyone tried one of these screwdriver sharpeners?

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806811524218.html

For sharpening hollow ground drivers .

[ClaudioCavalli]

Build quality, yep that’t the trick.  I may hive it a try and report back.  It will have to wait ‘till after xmas as I will not be home for the holidays.

While looking at the item,  the last picture has a link for “Find Similar” and if you click on it you will see what seems like the same item for wildly varying prices.  I wonder if that relates to quality or not?

[tomh207]

The issue I have with hollow ground screwdrivers are that they are great when you’re working on one model range with all the same slots on the screw heads. They can be a frustrating embuggerance when jumping between several manufacturers machines. I find it much easier and less frustrating to dress screwdrivers the traditional way, usually only takes a few seconds. Where the do excel is where you have something that requires regular strip down maintenance and you can dedicate a toolset for it i.e. a very expensive and unique firearm.

 

Tom

 

one grumpy old gits opinion 

[clockboy]

I am greedy I have two sets of screwdrivers. One set are traditional and one set hollow ground. I agree the traditional screwdrivers are easy to keep dressed.The hollow ground shape when shaped correctly I find do not slip because of the snug fit on the screw head. 
ps you can never have enough screwdrivers.

[Waggy]

29 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

The issue I have with hollow ground screwdrivers are that they are great when you’re working on one model range with all the same slots on the screw heads.

I agree completely, I tried the hollow ground ones and when they worked they were great, with no slip or screw slot deformation, but I found that they only worked on specific screw slot sizes, so I (being lazy) often used the next size down which either chipped the screwdriver blade and/or deformed the screw slot . I switched back to regular chisel type screwdrivers after a week or two of fighting with the hollow ground ones (actually I reshaped the hollow ground blades to chisel shapes). Nice to see that there is a reasonably priced tool available now for sharpening them, as the Horotec one is a crazy price.

[ClaudioCavalli]

18 hours ago, clockboy said:

I am greedy I have two sets of screwdrivers. One set are traditional and one set hollow ground. I agree the traditional screwdrivers are easy to keep dressed.The hollow ground shape when shaped correctly I find do not slip because of the snug fit on the screw head. 
ps you can never have enough screwdrivers.

So if I understand this correctly, the problem arises with screws with different widths of the slot?  In other words since the sides of the driver are almost parallel, it will not fit if the slot is too narrow, is this right?  On the other hand, a V shaped blade would be a little more forgiving?

Although I only have one good set of screwdrivers, it did come with three set of blades for each size.  Maybe I could dress each blade for a different width?

In any case, I will have to think a little more if I wand to spend the money!

Edited December 24, 2024 by ClaudioCavalli

[tomh207]

3 hours ago, ClaudioCavalli said:

So if I understand this correctly, the problem arises with screws with different widths of the slot?  In other words since the sides of the driver are almost parallel, it will not fit if the slot is too narrow, is this right?  On the other hand, a V shaped blade would be a little more forgiving?

Although I only have one good set of screwdrivers, it did come with three set of blades for each size.  Maybe I could dress each blade for a different width?

In any case, I will have to think a little more if I wand to spend the money!

It’s a lot easier to dress as you go rather that change bits on screwdrivers before they wear down. It’s far too easy in watchmaking to fall into the trap of overthinking things. If you regularly work on one type of movement it’s easier, if predominantly one with an additional mix it would be easier to have a set dedicated to the main movement and a set as “jobbers” to be reshaped for anything. Of course both sets will need dressing pretty constantly.

you understand the problem perfectly, it’s a real chore to try and resize hollow ground blades and they won’t last long either as you remove so much material to alter the width and need specialist tooling. The traditional way you only need an India and Arkansas stone, India for rapid shaping, Arkansas for polishing and maintaining.

 

Tom

[ClaudioCavalli]

12 minutes ago, tomh207 said:

It’s a lot easier to dress as you go rather that change bits on screwdrivers before they wear down. It’s far too easy in watchmaking to fall into the trap of overthinking things. If you regularly work on one type of movement it’s easier, if predominantly one with an additional mix it would be easier to have a set dedicated to the main movement and a set as “jobbers” to be reshaped for anything. Of course both sets will need dressing pretty constantly.

you understand the problem perfectly, it’s a real chore to try and resize hollow ground blades and they won’t last long either as you remove so much material to alter the width and need specialist tooling. The traditional way you only need an India and Arkansas stone, India for rapid shaping, Arkansas for polishing and maintaining.

 

Tom

That is it then.  Thank you for helping me make up my mind.  More money for other tools!

[Neverenoughwatches]

32 minutes ago, ClaudioCavalli said:

That is it then.  Thank you for helping me make up my mind.  More money for other tools!

A small grinding wheel will produce almost the same hollow cut. Try it on the few spare blades that you have to see how you feel about the shape. The traditional wedge has other advantages, you generally want a steep wedge that doesn't quite reach the bottom of the slot, for a better grip. This way will often lift the screw out as well, so that can negate the need to pick up tweezers.

The hollow cut touches all of the side of the slot rather than just the top edge , so has less overall chance of chewing the screw head .

[clockboy]

It’s more important to learn how to hold a screwdriver than the shape or style. This vid is well worth watching.

 

 

[RichardHarris123]

I would say it's equally important. 

[ClaudioCavalli]

Yep,  seen almost all of Kalle's videos.  I have been dressing screwdrivers with an Arkansas stone since I started but I was always curious about the Horotec tool but put off by the price.  I thought perhaps it would make it quicker to dress screwdrivers and maybe more repeatable.  I thought that with the low price of the Ali item, I might give it a go.  But the replies in this thread persuaded me to give it  pass.

Edited December 24, 2024 by ClaudioCavalli

[Malocchio]

A while ago I realized it's sometimes better to ditch gadgets and learn to use your hands. I always thought using a jacot tool must be really hard and I got a rollifit clone. There was a problem and I returned it and got a refund. I forced myself to burnish the old fashioned way and it wasn't that hard after all. I did get some upper back pain from the several days of intense training though. I should work on my ergonomics.