Quality Chinese Tools

[HectorLooi]

The spirit level is actually not essential. It doesn't help in squaring up the end of the screw. Unless your grinding surface has been levelled with a spirit level first.

[mbwatch]

11 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

The spirit level is actually not essential. It doesn't help in squaring up the end of the screw. Unless your grinding surface has been levelled with a spirit level first.

I had not thought about this but I that case it can be helpful. I have a lot of circular spirit levels laying around so I could match the one on the tool to one on the surface even if I can't easily level the grinding surface.

[mikepilk]

38 minutes ago, mbwatch said:

I had not thought about this but I that case it can be helpful. I have a lot of circular spirit levels laying around so I could match the one on the tool to one on the surface even if I can't easily level the grinding surface.

I wouldn't bother with the spirit level. Assuming you can get the screw perfectly vertically mounted in the tool,  I doubt the level would be accurate enough.

With my homemade tool, I find hard to get small screws mounted perfectly vertical, so I adjust the feet by eye, then I run it lightly over the lapping film and look where the screw head is marked. Then I just tweak the screws to level it up and repeat. Once you've done it a couple of times, it's quick and easy. I reckon I can polish a screw head in 2-3mins.

[RichardHarris123]

On another post about lathes, I think, engineer's blue was mentioned. Could it be applied to the screw head to help with the visualisation of high points? 

[mikepilk]

26 minutes ago, RichardHarris123 said:

On another post about lathes, I think, engineer's blue was mentioned. Could it be applied to the screw head to help with the visualisation of high points? 

There's no need for blue - it would just make your lapping film dirty 

Here's a screw head I've just run up and down some 9 micron film a couple of times. It's quite clear where it's cutting

[RichardHarris123]

Just an idea but yes, it's is obvious. 

[Kalanag]

On 2/3/2025 at 3:12 PM, Kalanag said:

The staking set is „qualified for free return and refund“. So I sent it back today and hope for refund. I‘ll let you know.

I received a full refund today 

Edited February 10 by Kalanag

[RickTock]

14 hours ago, Kalanag said:

I received a full refund today 

Good work! Mine came from an eBay seller about six months ago, so not much chance of duplicating your success for me.

[mbwatch]

@RickTock Are your punches also soft steel? I'm curious to find if some production batches have corners cut, or some sellers unload the faulty QC-failures as I have seen with other tools. But I am no longer tempted to ever buy one of these sets.

[Paul80]

Not used my set that much, but didn't notice any damage, although to be honest I probably didn't look.

Will check them for hardness tomorrow and report back.

[RickTock]

18 hours ago, mbwatch said:

@RickTock Are your punches also soft steel? I'm curious to find if some production batches have corners cut, or some sellers unload the faulty QC-failures as I have seen with other tools. But I am no longer tempted to ever buy one of these sets.

Yes, I had the same experience as Kalanag, with the tips of the punches deforming when riveting a balance staff. And the rounded punches need reshaping because they are not rounded all the way to the hole. So the part of the rounded punch that strikes the balance staff might as well be a flat punch. 

[Knebo]

19 minutes ago, RickTock said:

Yes, I had the same experience as Kalanag, with the tips of the punches deforming when riveting a balance staff. And the rounded punches need reshaping because they are not rounded all the way to the hole. So the part of the rounded punch that strikes the balance staff might as well be a flat punch. 

That's just stupid, isn't it? 

I mean, it's completely useless then, no? If you have to reshape them to use once and then they deform upon first use.... and if the steel is softer than the balance staff, will it even rivet at all? 

As @praezis wrote, what are all the other buyers doing with it?! 

 

It triggers another thought: how amazing were tool 50-100 years ago!! With much less technology, they produced such precise and robust tools that we still use them today. I just checked my round punches of my old Boley set and there's not the slightest trace from my first balance staff riveting. 

[Kalanag]

1 hour ago, Knebo said:

That's just stupid, isn't it? …

Right!

The „secret“ of good punches is the use of hardened tool steel.

Hardening and grinding the 50 punches seems not to be feasible for the price of the Chinese set. Unfortunately, they don’t even use hardenable tool steel.

This should be a quality staking set from China. The price is comparable to that of Cousins‘s „value“ version (made in India).

11 hours ago, Paul80 said:

…Will check them for hardness tomorrow and report back.

You just need to check with a magnet if the steel is ferromagnetic. If not you are done.

Edited February 12 by Kalanag

[Paul80]

Just checked mine and sure enough the punches are not magnetic, I suppose they could be stainless steel which can be quite hard, and they don't easily mark during the file test, so must have some degree of hardness.

Shall start looking for a vintage staking set, that's not too rusty or too expensive, (fat chance on the last one).  I suppose I could just look for a set of stakes as I am sure I saw a review on YouTube comparing new to old and it said the vintage stakes fitted the Chinese tool.

Anyone know if that is correct.

Paul

 

[tomh207]

Measure yours Paul, the most common vintage are 4.7mm as are shiny new bergeon.

 

Tom

[Knebo]

1 minute ago, tomh207 said:

Measure yours Paul, the most common vintage are 4.7mm as are shiny new bergeon.

 

Tom

Yes, my Boley is also 4.7

[praezis]

1 hour ago, Paul80 said:

as I am sure I saw a review on YouTube comparing new to old and it said the vintage stakes fitted the Chinese tool.

I saw that clown‘s video. He ridiculously tested the upper end for hardness. All quality makers anneal that end of the punch, so it is softer than the hard business end!

His aim was promoting his product for sale, the chinese one.

Frank

Edited February 12 by praezis

[LittleWatchShop]

1 hour ago, praezis said:

I saw that clown‘s video. He ridiculously tested the upper end for hardness. All quality makers anneal that end of the punch, so it is softer than the hard business end!

His aim was promoting his product for sale, the chinese one.

Frank

Frank, I don't go to Germany anymore. I used to teach in Berlin. But, if I did, I would look you up and buy you a beer.

Edited February 13 by LittleWatchShop

[mbwatch]

3 hours ago, Knebo said:

Yes, my Boley is also 4.7

Standard American made K&D and Marshall punches are all 4.7mm as well. I believe I have read that the punches from the Indian set sold by Cousins are 5mm and therefore incompatible with basically everything else.

I just found a video where a guy is measuring the Chinese punches with calipers at 5.0mm

[Kalanag]

10 hours ago, Paul80 said:

…I suppose I could just look for a set of stakes as I am sure I saw a review on YouTube comparing new to old and it said the vintage stakes fitted the Chinese tool.

Anyone know if that is correct.

@mbwatch is right. The Chinese Set has 5mm. So the common 4,7mm will not fit and you cann‘t get new replacements from Cousins or other vendors.

Vintage sets with 5mm are rare. The only vintage brand I found so far using 5mm is Helios (Berlin, Germany). EDIT: See comment by tomh207!

Edited February 13 by Kalanag

[tomh207]

35 minutes ago, Kalanag said:

 

Vintage sets with 5mm are rare. The only vintage brand I found so far using 5mm is Helios (Berlin, Germany).

Just checked my Helios set and they are 4.7

 

Tom

[Kalanag]

14 hours ago, tomh207 said:

Just checked my Helios set and they are 4.7

Meanwhile I asked an Ebay seller of a Helios set to be sure. He also confirmed the 4.7mm. Thanks for correcting me!

[Paul80]

I suppose I could sleeve the Chinese tool so that it will take vintage 4.7mm stakes.  That should be just about doable o

On 2/12/2025 at 7:53 AM, Kalanag said:

Right!

The „secret“ of good punches is the use of hardened tool steel.

Hardening and grinding the 50 punches seems not to be feasible for the price of the Chinese set. Unfortunately, they don’t even use hardenable tool steel.

This should be a quality staking set from China. The price is comparable to that of Cousins‘s „value“ version (made in India).

You just need to check with a magnet if the steel is ferromagnetic. If not you are done.

Even at that price they don't say the punches are hardened, the only mention of material used is a mention of stainless steel, so they may be no better than the cheap sets.

[Neverenoughwatches]

15 minutes ago, Paul80 said:

suppose I could sleeve the Chinese tool so that it will take vintage 4.7mm stakes.  That should be just about doable o

I'm not sure you would find sleeves that thin Paul, the usual tube wall thickness I've found is 0.5mm, so that a 1mm diameter reduction. There might be something but it seems very thin.

[AndyGSi]

32 minutes ago, Paul80 said:

I suppose I could sleeve the Chinese tool so that it will take vintage 4.7mm stakes.  That should be just about doable o

You can get 5mm tube with 0.2mm wall and maybe drill that to 4.7mm 

Think you'd be better drilling it out to 6mm, insert a 6mm tube with 1mm wall. then drill that to the 4.7mm