How do I remove this broken stuck pivot?

[SergioRJ]

Dear friends,

These wheels are from a vintage Tissot and are part of the center sweeping seconds. The problem: as I didn’t know how to remove the drive wheel from the third one I ended up breaking  the third one pivot that is stuck on the drive wheel and I’m not able to remove it. What can be done? Which tool? 
 

Thank you in advance.

 

 

[Nucejoe]

It happens, I think its called independent minute drive wheel, you best get you a replacement.

Check the jewel this fits in under good magnification.

Some folks here have removed these wheels with success by hand puller tool.

 

 

 

 

[Klassiker]

Sorry, I don't understand where the broken pivot is stuck. Is it still in the jewel hole? If so, it will probably rinse out when you clean the parts or you push it out with some sharp pegwood.

[HectorLooi]

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&2&2uswk&Tissot_27_020

I think the OP was referring to a sweep center second freewheel as @Nucejoe was saying.

[SergioRJ]

3 hours ago, Klassiker said:

Sorry, I don't understand where the broken pivot is stuck. Is it still in the jewel hole? If so, it will probably rinse out when you clean the parts or you push it out with some sharp pegwood.

On the drive wheel. The pivot comes from the  third wheel. I tried what I could but it’s too stuck. 

[SergioRJ]

6 hours ago, Nucejoe said:

It happens, I think its called independent minute drive wheel, you best get you a replacement.

Check the jewel this fits in under good magnification.

There is no jewel and it’s very stuck I was not able to remove. 

Some folks here have removed these wheels with success by hand puller tool.

There is a special wheel remover by Bergeon only for these type of wheel. Of course I didn’t have it  https://www.esslinger.com/bergeon-3-presto-sweep-wheel-remover-5-spoke/

 

 

[SergioRJ]

2 hours ago, HectorLooi said:

http://www.ranfft.de/cgi-bin/bidfun-db.cgi?10&ranfft&2&2uswk&Tissot_27_020

I think the OP was referring to a sweep center second freewheel as @Nucejoe was saying.

Yes.

[Nucejoe]

Should not attempt removing the broken piece without the right tool., the wheel warps easy.

 

[SergioRJ]

4 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

Should not attempt removing the broken piece without the right tool., the wheel warps easy.

 

That’s the problem. If I knew that there’s a specific tool for that I shouldn’t have broken the pivot.

Some guy suggested placing the pivot on lath and use the Bergeon tool I described above to remove it but I don’t have it yet.

 

Thank you for your interest.

[HectorLooi]

Now that the pivot has broken off, you can probably grip the broken end with a pair of pliers and remove it by gently twisting and pulling it.

If you know the calibre of the movement, you can try searching for a replacement 3rd wheel. If none can be found, you'll have to repivot the wheel. That would be a future project.

[Nucejoe]

See Bergeon presto hand remover tool, which Nickelsilver approved for removing the wheel which is to be pulled streight out.

[Nucejoe]

Just now, HectorLooi said:

Now that the pivot has broken off, you can probably grip the broken end with a pair of pliers and remove it by gently twisting and pulling it.

If you know the calibre of the movement, you can try searching for a replacement 3rd wheel. If none can be found, you'll have to repivot the wheel. That would be a future project.

No no Doc, slightest warp then the wheel wouldn't smoothly drive the sweep arbout.

[SergioRJ]

7 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

Now that the pivot has broken off, you can probably grip the broken end with a pair of pliers and remove it by gently twisting and pulling it.

It’s very stuck…my fear is to bend or even broke the drive wheel due to too much force. 

7 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

If you know the calibre of the movement, you can try searching for a replacement 3rd wheel. If none can be found, you'll have to repivot the wheel. That would be a future project.

It’s a SC27. There’s a guy asking $95 on eBay what I consider too much. 

[Nucejoe]

The jewel is set into the train bridge, this arbour ( broken now) runs through it.

[SergioRJ]

11 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

See Bergeon presto hand remover tool, which Nickelsilver approved for removing the wheel which is to be pulled streight out.

I will try that and let you know. I’m afraid of damaging the tool because it’s really stuck as if it’s glued. 

[Nucejoe]

3 minutes ago, SergioRJ said:

I will try that and let you know. I’m afraid of damaging the tool because it’s really stuck as if it’s glued. 

Oh I meant presto tool should have been used to remove the wheel, it wont do no good now. 

Go on to julesborel.com, see if they have got the 3rd wheel and possible alternatives to it.

[SergioRJ]

3 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

The jewel is set into the train bridge, this arbour ( broken now) runs through it.

Oh yes but it’s all clear. 
 

[SergioRJ]

1 minute ago, Nucejoe said:

Oh I meant presto tool should have been used to remove the wheel, it wont do no good now. 

Go on to julesborel.com, see if they have got the 3rd wheel and possible alternatives to it.

Oh yes! I wrote that above…I didn’t know I had to use this kind of tool. Lesson learned.

I will ask them. Thank you, again. 

[Nucejoe]

You need a THIRD WHEEL, LONG PIVOT, the old minute drive wheel can be refitted if its undamaged.

[SergioRJ]

1 minute ago, Nucejoe said:

You need a THIRD WHEEL, LONG PIVOT, the old minute drive wheel can be refitted if its undamaged.

Thank you for clarifying this. 

BTW, Mark should include a lesson on this since I’ve never seen someone teaching about these movements with center sweeping seconds and those extra wheels.

[nickelsilver]

You can grab the bit of remaining pivot with a pinvice and remove by pulling and twisting at the same time. The puller for 5 spoke wheels like this and driving wheels for chronographs is the Presto #3, for even spoked wheels it's the #3A.

Edited March 20, 2022 by nickelsilver

[HectorLooi]

The freewheel is only friction tight at the at last millimeter of the pivot. I use a homemade tool for lifting it off. It comprise two sewing needles with the eyes soldered together then glued into the end of a bamboo chopstick. It is wedged under the freewheel near the hub until it pops free. 

My mentor doesn't even use any tool. He just removes the whole wheel bridge then using his fingers to grasp the wheels on each side, with a gentle twist, he separates the wheels.

[SergioRJ]

18 minutes ago, HectorLooi said:

The freewheel is only friction tight at the at last millimeter of the pivot. I use a homemade tool for lifting it off. It comprise two sewing needles with the eyes soldered together then glued into the end of a bamboo chopstick. It is wedged under the freewheel near the hub until it pops free. 

I can’t figure out how this works. When you have time please post a photo with the tool in action or even a drawn. 

 

 

 

My mentor doesn't even use any tool. He just removes the whole wheel bridge then using his fingers to grasp the wheels on each side, with a gentle twist, he separates the wheels.

Hope to get his self confidence one day. As I don’t have a mentor I watch YouTube etc