Questions about K&D staking set

[ManSkirtBrew]

I recently picked up this staking set on eBay and I'm trying to go through it to organize the stakes. As expected, there have been some replacements over the years.

Two things I'm trying to figure out. First, most of the set is numbered S1, S2, S3...through S104. I can't find those in any of the historical K&D documentation. For example, S1 and S2 are pictured below, but every piece of documentation I've found shows #1 as the set punch, then it goes to #7. I'm curious partly for the history of them, and also so I can have an idea of how everything fits together so I can organize them intelligently. Does anyone have a parts list that includes these numbers?

Second question: the set came with a bunch of short stakes, about 2cm long by 4mm in diameter, along with a holder that's threaded at one end. Are these part of something else entirely? It looks like the holder threads into a handle, kind of like a collet chuck.

Thanks for any help!

[LittleWatchShop]

The tool at the top of the last image is part of a roller table remover set.

[JAHM]

Hi all.  I have just received a similar K&D staking set in the post and wondered if the knurled knob on the top of the frame should move.  If it should, mine is very much stuck.  Just thought I would ask before I force things.   Cheers, John

[LittleWatchShop]

6 hours ago, JAHM said:

Hi all.  I have just received a similar K&D staking set in the post and wondered if the knurled knob on the top of the frame should move.  If it should, mine is very much stuck.  Just thought I would ask before I force things.   Cheers, John

Does not move on any of my sets...one of which is k&d.

[TimeWerks]

ManSkirtBrew, the S numbering does not match what I have on my sets.  Mine only have numbers for the most part that correspond to the K&D numbering on the K&D set.  Not sure if maybe they used that numbering scheme sometime in the past.

The round face punches you showed correspond to something like 79, 80 in my K&D 18R inverto set.  But regardless of the numbering system as long as you have a good selection of punches and stumps, you will likely find what you are looking for.

Here are a few of links that might be useful or at least interesting.

https://kanddinverto.weebly.com

https://tadelstein.com/Cross-over-punches.pdf

https://tadelstein.com/Staking Tools and How to Use Them 1910 - 163p BW - S.pdf

 

And a few pages of descriptions of the tools included.

Cheers

Terry

[Geotex]

Maybe they are older than you think! If you go to the curated archive site at https://kanddinverto.weebly.com and look at the earliest catalogs in the References section, the punch numbers are sequential starting at 1 for the set punch and they go forward without any skipping. The codes also differ for the various sets such that some numbering schemes include a leading letter.  I didn't see "S" but complete catalogs for all years aren't available there.

[JAHM]

Thanks for the comment LitttleWatchShop regarding the movement of the knurled knob and sleeve at the top of the frame.  Strange that it would be knurled like it was supposed to move. At the moment the stakes won't slide through easily, so a bit of cleaning of the rust pitting is on the cards.  Thanks again, John   

[dadistic]

On my Moseley staking set the knurled knob is for adjusting the sliding friction on the stake. It is locked in place by a screw. The idea is that you want the friction adjusted so that the stake will stay in place and not just fall down, but still be loose enough that it doesn't interfere with punching. 

 

[JAHM]

Thanks for the response. That's what I would have expected but the K&D has no locking screw.  At this stage I will clean it up and see what happens. It may just be a force fitted during production and not meant to move.  It works as is, so I won't try forcing things for fear of breaking it.  Thanks again, John

[dmh7443]

my K&d set start with letters K L M and N. 

does anyone have information on these? 

[ManSkirtBrew]

On 7/31/2022 at 9:57 AM, TimeWerks said:

regardless of the numbering system as long as you have a good selection of punches and stumps, you will likely find what you are looking for

Thank you for the very informative response, Terry! I do have a very fine assortment--probably more than I'll ever need at my hobby level. It was mostly the engineer and historian in me that wants to know where they came from and what I'm missing...so they can be properly organized in the box

[mbwatch]

On 8/1/2022 at 8:13 AM, dadistic said:

On my Moseley staking set the knurled knob is for adjusting the sliding friction on the stake. It is locked in place by a screw. The idea is that you want the friction adjusted so that the stake will stay in place and not just fall down, but still be loose enough that it doesn't interfere with punching. 

Ah interesting.I have this set too and only recently discovered that the top knob is eccentric. I was thinking it was for fine centering adjustment but if I can actually adjust friction that would be very helpful. My set is also missing the small black cylinder that receives the bottom end of inverted stakes and I have been looking at fabricating something to replace it but from photos that hole looks eccentric too.

 

I also wonder now if my set is in the wrong box. It isn't possible to close the lid if the top friction knob is installed in the frame. But if it's intended to be locked in place it would seem inconvenient to install, set, and screw lock every time you pull the staking frame out of its box.

Edited May 27, 2024 by mbwatch

[Neverenoughwatches]

11 hours ago, mbwatch said:

Ah interesting.I have this set too and only recently discovered that the top knob is eccentric. I was thinking it was for fine centering adjustment but if I can actually adjust friction that would be very helpful. My set is also missing the small black cylinder that receives the bottom end of inverted stakes and I have been looking at fabricating something to replace it but from photos that hole looks eccentric too.

 

I also wonder now if my set is in the wrong box. It isn't possible to close the lid if the top friction knob is installed in the frame. But if it's intended to be locked in place it would seem inconvenient to install, set, and screw lock every time you pull the staking frame out of its box.

The top knurled nuts on all of mine are eccentric and to adjust the stake centering with the anvil holes.

[LittleWatchShop]

On 8/1/2022 at 8:13 AM, dadistic said:

On my Moseley staking set the knurled knob is for adjusting the sliding friction on the stake. It is locked in place by a screw. The idea is that you want the friction adjusted so that the stake will stay in place and not just fall down, but still be loose enough that it doesn't interfere with punching. 

 

Hey @dadistic, long time, no chat! Following this thread, I realized that one of my staking sets looks exactly like yours, but unmarked. I decided to investigate.

When I remove the knurled inset, I find a vertical slot with a flat spring in it to provide some friction/pressure to hold the stake. On mine, the spring is held more or less in place with some mushy stuff--no idea what it could be. Like maybe some ancient Rodico.

A rather odd setup to me.

Edited May 28, 2024 by LittleWatchShop

[mbwatch]

8 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

The top knurled nuts on all of mine are eccentric and to adjust the stake centering with the anvil holes.

That still seems to be what mine is designed for. No position has any effect on friction. And it feels like overkill to be an eccentric adjustment since the anvil plate already has enough motion. It's one more thing to knock out of adjustment at the wrong time.

[Neverenoughwatches]

4 hours ago, mbwatch said:

That still seems to be what mine is designed for. No position has any effect on friction. And it feels like overkill to be an eccentric adjustment since the anvil plate already has enough motion. It's one more thing to knock out of adjustment at the wrong time.

The nut is more of a fine tuning alignment that you don't quite get with the front to back movement of the anvil. When tightening the anvil it can want to pull itself central to the tapered head pin in the middle, though you do get a little front to back play, just not always enough if the frame isn't perfectly in lline or has had a knock. Not sure about the stake friction adjustment I haven't come across that before.

[mbwatch]

Well well. I looked closely at the nut and it looks like it had the thin interior friction spring @LittleWatchShop mentioned but the part is broken. So that's why I can't get more friction, but the thing is still an eccentric and is helpful especially to align with an inverted stake used as a stump.

[LittleWatchShop]

8 hours ago, mbwatch said:

Well well. I looked closely at the nut and it looks like it had the thin interior friction spring @LittleWatchShop mentioned but the part is broken. So that's why I can't get more friction, but the thing is still an eccentric and is helpful especially to align with an inverted stake used as a stump.

Yup, that is the same as mine. Use a watch mainspring.  Find one the correct width and cut it to length!

This is why you NEVER throw anything away.