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ST36 Swan Neck?

ChrisRobinson
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ChrisRobinson Member

ChrisRobinson

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So, I'm doing Mark's watch courses and got an ST36(00) from Ebay to work on.  I picked the fancy looking one with Côte de Genève on all the bridges.  What I didn't see at the time (lack of experience) was that it also has a swan neck regulator.  That's great and all, but the problem is that the way it's been implemented means that it's non-functional.

The spring puts no tension at all on the regulator for most of its travel, and the screw is too far from the regulator to do much as well.  I don't know how much more I can turn it, but I already moved it in a little.

My question is, would it be possible to adjust the spring so it actually puts tension on the regulator?  I've never tried to adjust this type of spring before, so I don't know how forgiving it is likely to be.  I think applying heat will probably destroy the temper, but I'm not sure it can be adjusted much without breaking it.  It might also require a longer spring.

Worst case I guess I can just remove it.

I'm interested to know people think I should do in this case and if there's any chance of making it work.

sn1.jpg

sn2.jpg

grsnovi Distinguished Member

grsnovi

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For what it's worth, I have the same movement and I haven't yet done anything with it. As shown in your photo, mine also has a gap between the screw and the regulator index as well as between the spring and the regulator index.

It's not clear to me why you think the spring needs to be engaged here.

Presumably the balance was set at the factory in a working state. In the event that the watch is running fast or slow you would want to adjust the index left or right to move the index pins along the terminal curve of the hairspring.

ChrisRobinson Member

ChrisRobinson

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3 hours ago, grsnovi said:

It's not clear to me why you think the spring needs to be engaged here.

The spring needs to be pushing the regulator, and the screw needs to be pushing back.  Regulation is done by adjusting the screw to move the regulator in very fine increments.  Much finer than you can do by pushing the regulator around with a piece of pegwood.

As it's been done here, it's just a bit of silly bling with no actual use, and in fact only serves to limit how much the regulator can be moved.

It wouldn't have been too hard to make it actually functional, but it's like it's been done by someone who doesn't know what it's supposed to do.

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grsnovi Distinguished Member

grsnovi

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What makes you think your watch needs regulation? Did you put it on a Timegrapher?

Some regulators have no spring or screw. How do they work?

14 minutes ago, ChrisRobinson said:

The spring needs to be pushing the regulator, and the screw needs to be pushing back

This essentially positions the regulator in a fixed place. The regulator works by positioning the index pins around the terminal curve. They are already in a position determined by the manufacturer to be OK.

So, asking again, why do you think they need to be adjusted?

Or have you just decided that because there is a spring and a screw something needs to be done?

Nucejoe Distinguished Member

Nucejoe

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8 hours ago, ChrisRobinson said:

I don't know how much more I can turn it, but I already moved it in a little.

I try turning the screw all the way in ( to confirm what you suspect )   who knows the regulator may then  reach the spring. As you know the spring is only to keep the regulator from moving in the event of a shock.

JohnR725 Distinguished Member

JohnR725

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3 hours ago, ChrisRobinson said:

As it's been done here, it's just a bit of silly bling with no actual use, and in fact only serves to limit how much the regulator can be moved.

Most of what I quoted above is true except?

Typically on modern watches The fine adjustment which is what this is if it was working is just a fine adjustment. I'm attaching an image you can see that the stud is held by a separate piece regulator pins are separate peace and whatever you have on the other end like this is a separate piece. This means the watch can be regulated without even moving the regulator arm because they're all separate independent of each other.

So basically for your watch you can just keep it the way it is as a visual decoration if it bothers you take it off if you really want to try to make it functional I would remove it before you try to bend the spring. Remove it run the regulating screw all the way out so it's not in the way and then try to bend the spring without breaking. But it really isn't necessary as to regulate just fine the way it is.

 

6497 regulation components all separate.JPG

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KarlvonKoln Distinguished Member

KarlvonKoln

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, ChrisRobinson said:

As it's been done here, it's just a bit of silly bling with no actual use, and in fact only serves to limit how much the regulator can be moved.

Am I looking at an imitation of the old "whip spring" variant of a micrometric regulator?  I have to agree with Chris here, in that this appears to be a decorative tack-on, by which the maker can presumably hope to charge more money.
On old railroad grade pocket watches, a regulator like this would have that spring pressing against the regulator arm throughout its entire range, with the screw pressing against the other side, and thus no sudden jerk or impact could throw the regulator out of adjustment.  If this regulator isn't doing that, then its either for looks, or needs adjustment itself.

 

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ChrisRobinson Member

ChrisRobinson

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11 hours ago, grsnovi said:

What makes you think your watch needs regulation? Did you put it on a Timegrapher?

Some regulators have no spring or screw. How do they work?

If you have no gooseneck, you just move the regulator.  If the gooseneck is working correctly you use the screw - it's a fine adjustment and the regulator can't move out of position any other way than by moving that screw.  The point is that this is just decoration that limits how far you can move that regulator against the spring.

Yes I check and regulate the watch each time it is stripped down and rebuilt.  It's a practice piece but will finish up in a Panerai style case once I'm done with it.  I was hoping someone might have experience adjusting this type of spring as I'm not sure they've even got the geometry right, and I expect the spring is more likely to break than change shape.

I guess I'll just have to try it and see what happens.

Edited by ChrisRobinson
grsnovi Distinguished Member

grsnovi

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Posted
5 hours ago, ChrisRobinson said:

I'm not sure they've even got the geometry right

I suspect that it may only be decoration as Karl says here:

5 hours ago, KarlvonKoln said:

If this regulator isn't doing that, then its either for looks, or needs adjustment itself.

This is after all a $24 Chinese copy of an Unitas 6498 which does not have the swan neck adjust. So, it was added by somebody in China. After looking at mine, I don't think that the adjustment as implemented is doing anything as you rightly noticed in the first place. I only purchased the one I have to practice on.

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