Vintage dollar pocket watch hands will not move

[Edifred]

I've got the movement working subperbly on this pocket watch but with one issue. The hands do not move. I cannot for the life of me see where the issue is nor can I find any missing parts. The main spring barrel pictured is not the one in the watch but is identical. I did not want to take the watch apart again! The wheel on top opf the barrell spins freely which I assume is correct but cannot see what drives it to move the ahnds. I've shown pictures of the canon pinion and hour wheel assembly as well. What am I missung here??

[Nucejoe]

Have not worked on these, its generally lose  canon pinion though.

[HectorLooi]

@Nucejoe is correct. But sometimes the friction pinion is not on the centre wheel. It could be 2nd or 3rd wheel. You have to study the gear train and see where slippage occurs when you adjust the time.

[JohnR725]

one of things really important when asking for help is to provide proper pictures. While you're being confused about a problem is no guarantee that anyone else on the group has ever seen this watch. So you getting a picture of the other side would be helpful so people might know what you're working on.

unfortunately I've seen something like this before. I very distinctly remember the mainspring barrel. But I have a habit of on problems like this where when the problems fixed that I move on and totally forget about the problem. Or unfortunately what exactly I did.

 

1 hour ago, Nucejoe said:

Have not worked on these, its generally lose  canon pinion though.

the problem is it's supposed to be loose on this watch. It just drops on the post and I'm pretty sure from memory the post is not the center wheel is just a post.

11 hours ago, Edifred said:

The hands do not move. I cannot for the life of me see where the issue is nor can I find any missing parts. The main spring barrel pictured is not the one in the watch but is identical. I did not want to take the watch apart again! The wheel on top opf the barrell spins freely which I assume is correct but cannot see what drives it to move the ahnds.

just to be 100% clear. If you put the watch in setting position and turn the crown you feel zero friction at all correct? Also if you push on the hands you have zero friction because nothing is driving the cabon pinion correct?

1 hour ago, HectorLooi said:

is correct. But sometimes the friction pinion is not on the centre wheel. It could be 2nd or 3rd wheel. You have to study the gear train and see where slippage occurs when you adjust the time.

yes this is usually a problem with cheaper watches where somebody gets really creative on how to do things. The basically things are not entirely as they appear to be.

why are there two mainspring barrels again?

currently my memory goes like this it's the wheel on top of the mainspring barrel. I think mine was too late and I managed to get some HP1300 oil in loosened it up. But that's my best guess from memory. So if you're wheel was not super loose and had some grip no idea how you do that though with the hands work?

 

 

[Edifred]

I've added a picture of the other side below. The post is fixed i.e. not on a centre wheel. The hands appear to be driven by the canon pinion connecting to the gear which sits on top of the main spring barrel. I think the issue is that that gear needs to spin freely to allow time adjustment, but also have enough friction to spin with the barrel as power is released by the train. So it is a kind of clutch where the axel that holds the gear on top of the barrel must be stiff enough to trun with the barrel, but loose enough to allow the time to be altered. I have tried tightenting it but still no luck. The train does not connect with the canon pinion at all, only this barrel gear.

By the way there is only one barrel. The one pictured is from a different watch but is the same. At time of taking the picture I did that instead of disassembling the watch again, but will have to again to try and crack this issue.

 

2 minutes ago, Edifred said:

I've added a picture of the other side below. The post is fixed i.e. not on a centre wheel. The hands appear to be driven by the canon pinion connecting to the gear which sits on top of the main spring barrel. I think the issue is that that gear needs to spin freely to allow time adjustment, but also have enough friction to spin with the barrel as power is released by the train. So it is a kind of clutch where the axel that holds the gear on top of the barrel must be stiff enough to trun with the barrel, but loose enough to allow the time to be altered. I have tried tightenting it but still no luck. The train does not connect with the canon pinion at all, only this barrel gear.

By the way there is only one barrel. The one pictured is from a different watch but is the same. At time of taking the picture I did that instead of disassembling the watch again, but will have to again to try and crack this issue.

 

 

[oldhippy]

The friction to drive the hands is here see picture, you need to oil this part with just a drop. The cannon pinon is meant to be a lose fit. 

[Edifred]

FIXED! It was indeed the barrel wheel that was too loose on its 'axel'. Needed to be tightented enought to spin to allow time setting but firm enough to spin with the barrel as it winds down. I used a tapered tool to widen the axel against the side of the wheel to do this and noticed tiny slits in it whch are there to allow it to bend outwards and grip the wheel sufficiently.

Thanks to all that responded as these helped me think it through. I'll now know this for the future!

Thanks OH. Got it going now. Its an issue I have not thought about before. Not had an issue with hands not moving, always been train and balance issues. Another lesson learnt which is great. Watch is running well with +/- 1min/day which is good for me anyway!