Movement holders?

[BillM]

I have several of these plastic movement holders and it seems like there’s never a good fit on any movement I use with them. 
This Seiko 6309 is barley held in place, when I install screws I find the movement popping out of place sometimes. 
what do you guys use? 

[spectre6000]

The industry standard is the Bergeon 4040. It's not very expensive, and does an excellent job.

[Shane]

37 minutes ago, spectre6000 said:

Bergeon 4040.

Agreed, a solid tool.  I bought a cheep no-name holder from eBay with free returns.  It was supposed to be a spare holder.  I returned it because it was so poorly machined that only three corners would support the movement from underneath, hold the movement about it's periphery or touch the table at any one time.  The adjustment screw wobbled wich meant the offending corner changed from time to time and ruled out my interest in making any improvements to it.

But a quality tool, you will be better off.

[BillM]

Thanks, I’ll check out the Bergeon 4040

I just checked and the one I’m using is a Bergeon 4039-P.  

[gbyleveldt]

The P (plastic) versions don’t do as good a job as the metal versions, as they’re softer and don’t grip the movements as well. I suspect the plastic versions exist for fear of making markings on movements when using the steel ones, but I’ve not seen any damage caused by them - even when clamping them pretty tight.

[Kalanag]

If you should own an 3D printer you can create perfect fitting holders custom made for each of the movements you work on.

 

4 hours ago, BillM said:

… when I install screws I find the movement popping out of place sometimes….

With vice type holders thats my experience too.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Kalanag

[mikepilk]

The Bergeon 4040 is the holder I use, but even then, there are movements which are difficult to hold properly. 

 

[nickelsilver]

I mostly use the 4040 or it's little brother 4039, but I also have some that are phenolic fiber in those sizes and really like them too. For "flippy" movements like chronographs  a round full contact holder is best. The round bergeon can be had in any size and adapted, but I often turn them up from Delrin (I make it for a light friction fit) or brass or aluminum which I split and use a screw to tighten. The movement can be fit dial up or down.

 

In the pic bottom left is a commercial chrono holder, the other bottom ones are shop made. Above is one of the phenolic holders and a couple more Delrin shop made and a few of the round metal Bergeons.

[Birbdad]

I use the 4040 as well. I'm only doing my first repair but it seems worth the money and solid and precise.

[mikepilk]

2 hours ago, nickelsilver said:

 For "flippy" movements like chronographs  a round full contact holder is best. The round bergeon can be had in any size and adapted, but I often turn them up from Delrin (I make it for a light friction fit) or brass or aluminum which I split and use a screw to tighten. The movement can be fit dial up or down.

"Flippy" is a good description. I had a Valjoux chrono flip out several times whilst testing the buttons. It just wouldn't sit properly in the 4040. I've ordered some cheap plastic holders. I'm hoping a bit of cutting/filing and they will be better for such movements.

[BillM]

Great info here, thanks everyone. 
looks like I’ll Be making some round holders soon. 

nickelsliver,  do you machine the metals ones just under size and then use a cam screw to expand the opening to fit the movement? 

[MrRoundel]

One can never have too many dedicated size/shape movement holders. I like the Marshall (I think HR made them as well.) 4-sided vise style a lot for small movements, but it sometimes doesn't grip them right. Heck, even the Bergeon holder made for 6 3/4 x 8 ligne movements isn't perfect when trying to hold the movement dial down. Dial up it's great. But it's always nice to have one specifically designed to accommodate a particular movement. I'm always on the lookout for an interesting movement holder that looks like it will work well. 

The Bergeon 4040 looks like a good one, and is truly ubiquitous, but is one I don't have. Good luck.

 

 

[BillM]

Well, here’s my first custom movement holder, pretty happy with it, in fact I wish I would have made this before I started on this movement, I’ll almost done with it. 
 

I ordered the 4040 anyway, but figured I try making one in the mean time.  
thanks for all the help guys!
 

[JohnFrum]

Nice design. An inner and outer lip to accommodate both the bare movement and the movement+spacer ring.

Most of the available dedicated Seiko 7s26+ holders require the dial holder spacer to be in place.

One exception is the holder by Murphy Manufacturing. It has an inner ring that supports the bare plate and an outer sleeve that can be raised to hold the spacer ring. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 7/29/2022 at 2:59 AM, BillM said:

I have several of these plastic movement holders and it seems like there’s never a good fit on any movement I use with them. 
This Seiko 6309 is barley held in place, when I install screws I find the movement popping out of place sometimes. 
what do you guys use? 

Similar to the cheap Chinese ones. A lot of it has to do with the shape of movement plate. Bevels on the mainplate can cause uneveness on the jaws of the cheap holders.

[Shane]

@BillM

Please elaborate on the flexible grey membrane in the for ground of your first photo.  Duct tape?

Shane 

[grsnovi]

One thing that you need to watch while placing the movement into the holder is what the holder is going to clamp on. In your very first photo it looks like you'd need to rotate the movement so the points where it engages are located on portions of the circumference where there is a solid section (rather than at a point where there is a cut out.

The 4040 has several ways that a movement can be placed and you have to ensure that you have the movement flat and lined up on both sides. You can also flip the 4040 over and use the different configuration on the bottom (or top).

[Neverenoughwatches]

On 9/6/2022 at 3:10 AM, grsnovi said:

One thing that you need to watch while placing the movement into the holder is what the holder is going to clamp on. In your very first photo it looks like you'd need to rotate the movement so the points where it engages are located on portions of the circumference where there is a solid section (rather than at a point where there is a cut out.

The 4040 has several ways that a movement can be placed and you have to ensure that you have the movement flat and lined up on both sides. You can also flip the 4040 over and use the different configuration on the bottom (or top).

Good point G, this is very common. Points of contact can low on cheap movement holders even on bergeon 4040 depending on the shape and layout of the movement. The cheap ones do not have enough depth on the jaws where the size increased are. I prefer the ones that have a wooden grip on each corner. Here are a couple of pocket watch and larger watch size holders and also a jewelers vice with a little hack to create the same idea. Also a circular full grip holder, here the curved jaws are undercut to help grip over a movement lip, also has a nice stable base that doesnt decrease when mounting smaller movements like the bergeon 4040 does.  I mostly use my adapted one as it gives me a nice table to put small parts on when working and the base is permanently sized and stable also. It has a good weight to it unlike other holders that knock about easily, you know its there so to speak. And then the fixed ones that seem far too light for me.

[Neverenoughwatches]

Eyup watch folks, bringing to life an okd thread here...thoughts about this style of holder anyone 

[Paul80]

Just got one myself but not had a chance to use it yet, been doing pocket watches which are obviously to big for this holder 

[Neverenoughwatches]

7 hours ago, Paul80 said:

Just got one myself but not had a chance to use it yet, been doing pocket watches which are obviously to big for this holder 

Thanks Paul , I'd be interested to know what you think about it and what the movement size range is please. I see they are caliber specific, but 7 rings means 7 ligne sizes and they look like they have some adustment due to the split. So i figure each ring can take 3 maybe 4 ligne diameters....1 size up on the caliber by opening up the ring a touch and using just the ring on its own....the caliber size..and 1 caliber down by adding some extra torque on the outer casing screw. That provides 21 ligne sizes...hopefully in consecutive increments. A range of 8-13 lignes (24 ligne diameters ) would accommodate most movements that we generally work on...thats 18-29.5 mm...if each ring is adjustable by 1.5mm then thats a  range of 10.5mm for the seven rings....which quite close to ligne range of 11.5mm, so as long as the rings are in a following size order.....this appears to be a good buy.

[Knebo]

8 hours ago, Paul80 said:

Just got one myself but not had a chance to use it yet, been doing pocket watches which are obviously to big for this holder 

I'd also be interested to hear about your experience. 

That being said, I'm happy with my 4040 and 4039 (metal) holders. 

What diameter is the base? Wondering if it fits the standard hand setting presses. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

3 minutes ago, Knebo said:

I'd also be interested to hear about your experience. 

That being said, I'm happy with my 4040 and 4039 (metal) holders. 

What diameter is the base? Wondering if it fits the standard hand setting presses. 

Yes please let us know Paul , I'm getting wound up elsewhere and need something else to focus on

[caseback]

3 minutes ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Yes please let us know Paul , I'm getting wound up elsewhere and need something else to focus on

On your studies..? 

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 minutes ago, caseback said:

On your studies..? 

Lol no Cees , my studies are coming along just fine....just having a public rant not too far from here 

I've messaged the seller to ask for some internal sizes but I'm not holding my breath.  From the calibers numbers I can determine that there are 4 rings in close order...two eta.s an omega and a rolex from 11.5 ligne up to 13.25 ... the smaller rings finish at 7.75  and 8.75 linges...and not sure of the other  caliber 3100.  What I think is lacking is the 9 -11  ligne range, just looking at the sleeves there appears to be a biggish jump. 3 of the bigger ones look as though they overlap the case top. Just thinking...the inside of the case i guess at around 28mm , turn some more sleeves from 28mm brass pipe. 

Edited January 28 by Neverenoughwatches