How should I use lighter fluid to clean my watch parts?

[12052]

So, I'm to the point in my watch repair learning process where I'm able to take apart and put together all the movements that I've ordered so I've begun buying old pocket watches.  Instead of getting an ultrasonic cleaner I am going to try using lighter fluid and soaking those dirty parts in small glass jars.  My question is this: How long to I soak the parts for?  And when they are done soaking do I just air dry them or set them on some paper and blow some air with my air blower on them?  I also got some oils and some oil applying tools that I'm going to attempt to use as well.  But the soaking question is what I really need some input on.  Thank you so much! 

[oldhippy]

You will need jars with screw on tops as lighter fluid evaporates very quick. You can keep the parts in the fluid for as long as you like and it doesn't dissolve  shellac. I would have a jar for the balance complete, pallets and escape wheel. just be careful with the other train wheels pivots and teeth. The way I cleaned the balance was after cleaning put the part on some tissue paper and use your blower as I said it evaporates very quick so it doesn't take much drying. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

6 hours ago, 12052 said:

So, I'm to the point in my watch repair learning process where I'm able to take apart and put together all the movements that I've ordered so I've begun buying old pocket watches.  Instead of getting an ultrasonic cleaner I am going to try using lighter fluid and soaking those dirty parts in small glass jars.  My question is this: How long to I soak the parts for?  And when they are done soaking do I just air dry them or set them on some paper and blow some air with my air blower on them?  I also got some oils and some oil applying tools that I'm going to attempt to use as well.  But the soaking question is what I really need some input on.  Thank you so much! 

Hi 12. This topic has been discussed many times over here so some searching for previous  info and people's experiences will give you a good insight of how to use lighter fluid. But in the meantime here is some to get you moving. There are obviously better specific proprietary fluids for cleaning but as a starter the light fluid is ok and was also my starting point with cleaning. So just to give you a little background on the substance you are using. Lighter fluid is a type of naptha which is petroleum ether. There various grades of naptha that all have different uses. The gradings are established according to their molecular structure, with two basic categories which are made up of a light and a heavy naptha. Light naptha is made up of a low carbon to hydrogen structure, heavy naptha has a high carbon molecule structure. In reference to cleaning, light naptha evaporates more quickly than a heavy naptha. You can do your own test here with a couple of drops on a mirror, this will also show you any residue left behind as an indication as to its purity. Lighter fluid often contains vm and p naptha with is varnish makers and painter's naptha. This has a higher count carbon atom structure so is a heavy naptha and does not evaporate as quickly as a light naptha. The time length of soak depends on how dirty the parts are. 10 mins with agitation and brushing can be enough or an overnight soak maybe required if heavy contamination is present. Watchpaper and a blower is fine for drying, just be mindful that tiny springs can fly, so consider some method of containment here. Enjoy your first experience of servicing

[Nucejoe]

 I blow dry with hot air by a hair dryer, specially when drying hairsprings, the reason  is that,  temperature drops as the fluid evaporates thence air moisture condences  on parts.

Many grades of petrolium ether are produced, none is specifically for cleaning watch parts including naphta or Isopropanol. 

 

 

 

 

 

[mbwatch]

6 minutes ago, Nucejoe said:

 I blow dry with hot air by a hair dryer,

I've seen a hair dryer mentioned a few times. Out of curiosity, what do you secure your parts in while drying them? Do you blow dry the whole cleaning basket?

[Kalanag]

3 hours ago, Neverenoughwatches said:

Hi 12. This topic has been discussed many times over here so some searching for previous  info and people's experiences will give you a good insight of how to use lighter fluid. But in the meantime here is some to get you moving. There are obviously better specific proprietary fluids for cleaning but as a starter the light fluid is ok and was also my starting point with cleaning. So just to give you a little background on the substance you are using. Lighter fluid is a type of naptha which is petroleum ether. There various grades of naptha that all have different uses. The gradings are established according to their molecular structure, with two basic categories which are made up of a light and a heavy naptha. Light naptha is made up of a low carbon to hydrogen structure, heavy naptha has a high carbon molecule structure. In reference to cleaning, light naptha evaporates more quickly than a heavy naptha. You can do your own test here with a couple of drops on a mirror, this will also show you any residue left behind as an indication as to its purity. Lighter fluid often contains vm and p naptha with is varnish makers and painter's naptha. This has a higher count carbon atom structure so is a heavy naptha and does not evaporate as quickly as a light naptha. The time length of soak depends on how dirty the parts are. 10 mins with agitation and brushing can be enough or an overnight soak maybe required if heavy contamination is present. Watchpaper and a blower is fine for drying, just be mindful that tiny springs can fly, so consider some method of containment here. Enjoy your first experience of servicing

I hope we all speak about lighter fluids for cigarette lighters not for charcoal! Zippo lighter fluid (as an example) is made from light naphta (see SDS section 3).

[Nucejoe]

2 hours ago, mbwatch said:

I've seen a hair dryer mentioned a few times. Out of curiosity, what do you secure your parts in while drying them? Do you blow dry the whole cleaning basket?

I just hold the hair dryer about half a meter away from the hairspring. 

[12052]

Thank you SO much for the input!  I find all that info really helpful.  Going to apply that newly gained knowledge today.  Again, Thank you SOOOOO much!!!

[Mark]

Cleaned up this thread out of respect for the OP

[oldhippy]

Thanks Mark. 

[Neverenoughwatches]

17 hours ago, 12052 said:

Thank you SO much for the input!  I find all that info really helpful.  Going to apply that newly gained knowledge today.  Again, Thank you SOOOOO much!!!

Try different methods 12 to see what you are happy with. As you can see there are many different views. Old school watchmakers didnt have the extra luxury of forums to gain knowledge from. Much of their experience came from a trial and error approach .

[Gramham]

12 hours ago, Zero said:

I'm struggling to understand how all of this relates to the topic "How should I use lighter fluid to clean my watch parts?"

That said, @Gramham, @Shane, you're gonna have a hard time if you ask more experienced/professional members here about using 3D printed winders. I get very little feedback from them in regards to improving the design, I'm guessing because most of them have no need for it.

The people who do help me on this project are like minded hobbyists and tinkerers, or those starting out their journey. They have given a lot of feedback and quite a number of them printed it out to help me test the winder over the last year, and as you can see the winder design looks very different than it did initially.

I will list some pros of using the 3D printed RS winder:

• Its free. Do whatever you want with the design files, make it suit your needs.
• You can get a good 3D printer under 200GBP (Eg. Kingroon K3PS). And it is an objectively better purchase to a hobbyist/tinkerer. See purchase advice megathread on Reddit : https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting
• Plastic will never scratch steel, at least in general.
• Its considered disposable.
• You can just print the sizes you care about and not care about the rest.
• There is a learning curve to using it, but once mastered it is a joy to use and will not fail on you. Practicing is important.

Cons of using should be obvious. If it isn't, please read it here:
https://github.com/vishnu350/rs-mainspring-winder#warnings-and-advice

@Zero

You're right, of course.  MY APOLOGIES to @12052 for hijacking their thread.  I got too excited about my own interests.  Sorry.  Back to the subject at hand:

In one of the books I am reading (de Carle) mention is made of the convenience of immersing entire movements in ultrasonic cleaning machines in order to evaluate them in situ post-cleaning.  What is not mentioned in that passage is the nature of the cleaning fluid in the ultrasonic cleaner.

The other day while visiting one of the several "Watch Streets" in Hong Kong - a place called Ap Liu Gai - I saw a streetside Watchmaker apply RONSONOL directly to a Seiko movement that was still in its case and then shake it to see if he could get some action out of it.  I am pretty sure that's NOT the way to go - but that's what he did.  I saw it.  Obviously, I am not advocating such an action on your part, because I do not know what the consequences might be for you - but I did see it happen, so it is clearly one of your options if you know what you are doing.  The question, as with most things, seems to be more like when you can safely do this rather than if you can safely do this.

In its current formulation, ZIPPO and RONSONOL (Liquid Lghter fluid) are composed of 70% white/clear petroleum distillates and 30% naphtha.  That's what the Material Data Sheet (MDS) says.  Both components are highly volatile petrochemicals that, if they can reach them physically, will certainly "dissolve" whatever oil-based contaminants that might be gumming things up.  But be careful - they will also perform a dissolving action on any other other oil-based  "things" in the movement, which may include things you didn't want dissolved.

To answer your question directly, it depends.  If the movement is sufficiently disassembled (i.e. the dial has been removed) and the movement has no sensitive parts and the movement has ample replacement parts if you end up dissolving something important and, and, and....

This is why best practice with all machines is pretty much the same:  Disassemble, segregate parts by cleaning modality, clean parts using the modality that is appropriate to their nature and usage context, reassemble, lubricate, test.

That's the protocol that I am striving towards with the micro-machines we call clocks, pocket watches and wrist watches.

So the question then transforms from when and if to should. 

I don't think, normally, you should soak an entire movement in lighter fluid.  I think you should take them apart "properly", clean them "properly", assemble them "properly" and lubricate them "properly" as they were designed to be engaged with by the people who developed them.  Watch movements are not designed to be engaged with in any other way, and this truth is deeply embedded in the social pattern we recognize as Watchmaking and its attendant practices.

Hope that helps....

g.
----

Disclosure:  My own experience with Watchmaking so far, this thread and other comments I have come into contact with on this Forum have motivated me to start writing a paper entitled "How (and Why) We Clean Things" that I will be circulating to potential publishers for peer review later on this year.  I am encouraged to produce written work as a Tutor and Lecturer at PolyU, so I seek out puzzling and paradoxical things in everyday life and write about them.  The work is still very much under development, but when I am finished I will (naturally) make it available to this group once it has finished peer review, probably some time next year.  Academic publishing wheels turn very, very slowly.

[Mark]

6 hours ago, Gramham said:

You're right, of course.  MY APOLOGIES to @12052 for hijacking their thread.  I got too excited about my own interests.  Sorry.

I think this post was intended for the lighter fluid thread rather than the mainspring barrel thread (I split them off) so I've moved it here for continuity reasons - I hope you don't mind.

For those confused - I apologize but this thread went off on a tangent and so I split it in an effort to keep threads on topic. The split thread is here:

 

[12052]

So, I've progressed a bit in my watch making/repair journey.  I've been taking apart the whole movement and then putting all the parts in separate baskets all of which then go into a jar of lighter fluid which I then seal and put into the ultrasonic for a few mins.  I then take all those parts out and dry them and put them in a jar of 99% ISO and do the same thing.  Before I use the ISO I take the pallet fork out and the balance complete.  My question here is, is it ok for me to be running the balance complete and the pallet fork through the ultrasonic at all?  Or does the ultrasonic cause damage to those parts?

 

[Nucejoe]

I have lost balance pivots in ultrasonic, seems to happen regardless of what cleaning solution you use, I believe its due to vibrations. 

Rgds

[whathaveidone]

Found this thread and had a question about when to replace the Ronsonol.  I cleaned my first pocket watch movement and the solution is pretty dirty.  At what point do I toss (dispose of correctly) and start with fresh fluid?  Thanks all.  

[tomh207]

1 minute ago, whathaveidone said:

Found this thread and had a question about when to replace the Ronsonol.  I cleaned my first pocket watch movement and the solution is pretty dirty.  At what point do I toss (dispose of correctly) and start with fresh fluid?  Thanks all.  

It all depends on how dirty the watches have been, 5 fairly clean watches wouldn’t be a problem I think but if one watch has made the fluid look visibly dirty I would ditch the fluid and replace for the next.

 

Tom

[oldhippy]

Change it each time for a different movement. It certainly needs to be fresh for the balance. 

[RichardHarris123]

I use the same fuel for the initial clean and then fresh fuel.  Then repeat the process. 

[StickDog]

"How should I use lighter fluid to clean my watch parts?" You shouldn't.

I understand the impetus to save a buck, but commercial cleaning fluids produce a far superior job.

[oldhippy]

If these is the only means you have. There is nothing wrong in doing so. Ronsonol lighter fluid is also shellac friendly and will not harm it. You will need a jar with a screw lid as it evaporates quickly. I always used Ronsonol for cleaning hairsprings. Don't expect first class results as you would get with a proper watch cleaning machine. Go on enjoy your watch cleaning.

[Waggy]

1 minute ago, StickDog said:

I understand the impetus to save a buck, but commercial cleaning fluids produce a far superior job.

I would agree with you but unfortunately there are those of us who live somewhere where you can't buy or import those fluids. FYI many of the cleaning fluids have a naphtha base, for example L&R rinse 3 is 30% straight naphtha and 70% white spirit (Stoddard solution). Where Stoddard solution is just naphtha with some of the more aromatic elements removed. Hence, if you use this commercial product you are in fact rinsing your watch in lighter fluid (naphtha). 

As a side note, L&R 111 is about 80% naptha/Stoddard solution which means you are also cleaning in something which is 4/5 lighter fuel.

At the end of the day you need a clean watch, how you got it clean is not important. Clean is clean.

[rehajm]

I’ll defer the debate to the pros but yah…

34 minutes ago, Waggy said:

As a side note, L&R 111 is about 80% naptha/Stoddard solution which means you are also cleaning in something which is 4/5 lighter fuel.

I was worried my cleaning machine was too vigorous (the control knob is sensitive) so instead of back on the plate I started soaking the balance in fresh a cup of Ronsonol. Dunk and leave it, sometimes an hour or more…I’ve stayed with it because they seemed to look cleaner, plus the bath is fresh every time…

[oldhippy]

At the end of the day you need a clean watch, how you got it clean is not important. Clean is clean.

No that is wrong. You should clean it with what ever you choose, but it mustn't harm any of the watch workings.  

[Waggy]

I currently use hexane as the final cleaning fluid for my balance, I use a small jam jar (the kind you get the single serving from in hotels/restaurants) as hexane evaporates very quickly. The one-dip or B-dip as it is known now is just pure PERC  (tetrachloroethylene), which is dry cleaning fluid with a huge price mark-up. I can buy about 2.5 Lt of 99.99% pure PERC for the same price as our Swiss friends are asking for 50ml. Once I use up my hexane, I will consider switching to PERC.

2 minutes ago, oldhippy said:

but it mustn't harm any of the watch workings

Assumed this was a given, but you are correct, you need to be cautious about using the wrong cleaning chemical in the wrong situation