Help Please: Mido 816 (As 1081) Randomly Stops

[raymondgin]

Hi WRT's,

I'm new to watch repair but am pretty hooked on the problem solving and the detailed work! I can't stop! 

but this mystery is killing me; I have a 1946 Mido Multifort with a 816 bumper movement that stops randomly without provocation.

 

When I opened it up, disassembled, then reassembled to test out the power train (without mainspring), everything spins and moves smoothly. So I continue to install the mainspring & bridge, give it a wind, and it runs smoothly --until I mount the bumper winder assembly and it stops.

Dismantle, recheck, reassemble and it runs smoothly --this time, until I mount the bumper weight assembly when it stops.

... ...dismantle, recheck, reassemble. And it runs smoothly ( I even got the caseback on!) --until a few minutes later when it mysteriously stops.

 

... ... ...dismantle, recheck, reassemble but this time without the escapement. I apply a little wind, it spins and whines down. <repeat> it spins and whines down. I apply a little wind a third time but this time it stores the wind and doesn't automatically spin and wind down.

 

So I jiggle the gear train and then suddenly it releases the wind (thank God I was careful not to give it too much wind on the 3rd test!)

 

So I take the face and hands off, check the hour & minute gears and they look fine. Reassemble... Long story short, its all back together and it still stops randomly.

--I know something is obstructing the power train but I have no clue where to specifically look (my eyes are still learning to differentiate the minutia). Anyone and everyone, I gladly welcome your ideas.

 

Further, as I received the watch, non-working (it wouldn't even wind; possibly because it was stopped/ obstructed and wound to the fullest), when it does run, it runs fast. We're talking about gaining hours in a day (p.s. no, it didn't run for 24 hours continuously; I just did the math during the minutes that it did run).

I'm venturing a guess that this is a separate problem but just to be sure, ...are they related?

 

 

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Ray

 

 

[anilv]

I would suspect the barrel pivots are worn, causing the barrel to tilt and jam.

 

Scrutinize the barrel, is there any up down movement? Can the barrel be tilted (in relation to the mainplate)?

 

Re running fast. A galloping movement is usually due to hairspring issues, if the coils touch each other this is what happens. Magnetized, oil and physically bent hairsprings may cause coils to touch. Remove the balance and lay it with the balance facing up. Inspect the coils, are they concentric without touching? The hairspring contacting other parts of the movement (main plate, pallet cock) also screws up the running, in this case the hairspring needs to be adjusted so that it is level.

 

Anil

[Geo]

Welcome to the forum Ray.

That's very good advice from Anil. I would also check out every jewel to ensure there are no remnants of old oil that has hardened like varnish. This hardened oil expands when fresh oil is applied, and eventually grips the pinions. Clean the jewels with pegwood and check to make sure that end shake in the pinions is still present.

A good way to check that everything is very free is to let down the mainspring, and remove the auto drive mechanism and click. Now remove the balance and escapement lever. With these parts removed, use a watchmakers puffer to blow the edge of the escapement wheel and it should drive the whole train easily.

[frenchie]

Great advice from Anil and Geo. Also make sure all the pinions are in good shape while you're cleaning the jewels.

[raymondgin]

Ok, so on my list this weekend:

 

-check barrel play

-check pivots & pivot holes

-remove balance and check for touching & bending

-remount balance and check for any contact.

 

Thanks for the input and advice Anilv, Geo, and Frenchie!

 

 

 

While we're at it, I've been getting my mind off of the Mido by puttering with an ETA 2836-2 (that has 2 symptoms) and i'd like to run some troubleshooting by you all:

A. The crown & stem turn an sets time -but only backwards. The setting gears slip when setting the time forwards.

B. The crown & stem won't manually wind.

C. But the day & date set just fine.

 

I'm thinking its the setting lever jumper. I'm suspecting that that its lost its "spring" and isn't pushing/ pulling the sliding pinion far enough against the winding gear or against the setting gear?

 

How far off am I?

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Ray

[anilv]

Hi Ray, you are correct in that the problem is with the setting lever...it hasn't lost its spring but merely jumped out of its groove. The 2836 family of movements is notorious for this, that's why the push-piece for the stem release sit in a screwdriver shaped slot. You use a screwdriver which fits this slot so that the piece cannot be pushed to far in.

 

The traditional method to fix this problem is by removing the hands, dial, day-wheel, date-wheel and finally the set lever bridge. The unconventional way is to remove the autowind bridge, followed by the barrel bridge. This gives access to the clutch wheel. Using a fine needle tool, it is possible to maneuver the set-lever back into place.

 

One tip to avoid such problems in the first is to get the stem in the hand-set position before removing it.

 

Enjoy fixing your watches!

 

Anil

[raymondgin]

Hey Anil, (&Geo, &Frenchie),

Ok so heres what it was with Mido 817:

You were right about the barrel being loose. BUT it wasn't anything with the pivots; ir was the spring that pushes the clutch lever into winding position. Theres's the part of the spring that pushes the lever but the other end is supposed to cantilever against the barrel. ...only it was UNDER the barrel.

...unfortunately, I broke the OTHER clutch lever spring, the one that pushes the lever into the the setring position. <sigh> Got any leads on a replacement? Or know of a more abundant movement with equivalent parts that I can ebay search?

As for the 2836, it was a similar part that was the problem, --i didn't click the upper clutch lever spring into position.

On a separate note, the majority of folks say the the safest position to remove the stem on is the setting position but I noticed that the detent pin of the set lever is most supported in the winding position by the set bridge. As a noob, I gladly look forward to understanding and hearing your thoughts.

Ray